Questions About Current Percussion Replica Revolvers

[Coffinmaker]

CCG ...

Correct-a-mundo.  We are in fact talking about a #10 stainless split washer.  It's quick and dirty, simple and cheap.  The #10 washer sets down a little in the bottom of the barrel lug bore where the drill leaves a slight concave "dimple" in the bottom.  This will normally fix a Uberti barrel/armor fit.  Understand, 45 Dragoon and I have some differences with regard to Barrel to cylinder gap but no matter.  His washer and my washer both work quite well. 

We both agree, we have NEVER seen a Uberti Open Top nor Cap Gun with correct Barrel to Arbor fit.  If that fit is not corrected, there is no point in other work on the action.  Folks wind up chasing their tail trying to get the guns to set up correctly.  If you try and fix the head space and end shake on an Open Top without FIRST correcting barrel to arbor fit, you wind up with way too much head space and end shake when you get around to fixing the arbor fit.

My personal caveat is simple.  I don't like Uberti.  PERIOD. (Mike and I also disagree there) but no matter.  It is imperative .... Barrel to Arbor fit MUST be corrected FIRST!!!.  And again, yes, my solution without lots of machine work is a #10 split washer.  The Arbor will bottom and only minor sedge fitting will be required.  Burma Shave!!

HI MIKE!!

[Crow Choker]

Well "Shiver my timbers"! I was thinking 10 mm, but if it's just a plain-o' #10 I stand corrected. For what's if worth I did go back in the forum 'r-cheevies' and found posts that said both, 10mm and #10 splitters' for a arbor fix. I'll have to dig around in the shop and see what I do have. I still have a small bag of em I bought for arbor work.

[45 Dragoon]

Haaa!!  Hey Mike!!
   Well said, and since I'm not retired, I'm sorta like the ferry operator in Outlaw Josey Wales .  .  .   I've gotta sing the praises of Piettas and Ubertis with equal "in-thewseeazum" !! I can say that the 2nd gen Colts / ASM's (without a doubt!!) slow the shop down considerably!! There's a revamping of my website (way over due) that will reflect this  .  .  .   I'll also be offering New "ready to go" in the box revolvers as well.
   As I see it, both Pietta and Uberti offer a far superior product than we had/experienced in our younger days and possibly (in many respects) over the originals! Therefore, I don't think you can go too "wrong" with either!  Since this thread encompasses all replica revolvers, (and I know Mike doesn't like Remington's)  the Remington versions are quite remarkable arms after they've been "serviced"!! Just thought I'd throw that in since nobody else had .  .  .  nice thread !!!

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

Hiya Right back atcha Mike. 

Full agreement.  I've been taking just enough work to keep from going completely Knutz.  That work also keeps me current with what is happening in the Cap Gun world. 

It's a fact.  The guns we are seeing now of recent production are leagues ahead of what we saw just a few years ago.  The offerings from Uberti and Pietta are really nice guns.  I still don't like Uberti but that is strictly a personal thing.  Once set up Uberti are fine guns.  I just like Pietta guns more better.  I can play with more bits and pieces to make some rather interesting and fun "never never" guns with Pietta.  I full realize the never never guns aren't histeraclly correct, but we aren't reenacting in CAS.  Just suppose to be having FUN.  Large gobs of FUN!!

A caveat though.  I don't like Remington.  PERIOD.  No matter who makes em nor caliber.  Personal thing.  I full realize there are those whom are aficanadsoes of Remington.  Some also like Boiled Okra.  Yhuck. 

Da Other Mike

[Professor Marvel]

A caveat though.  I don't like Remington.  PERIOD.  No matter who makes em nor caliber.  Personal thing.  I full realize there are those whom are aficanadsoes of Remington.  Some also like Boiled Okra.  Yhuck. 

Da Other Mike

Ah My Dear Coffin-Mike

whatever exactly is it about the remingtons that burns your  offends your sensibilities?

I have a "pile o' parts" R&S that seems to present itself as the "perfect solid frame C&B" that was actually made, mainly because one
can pop out the grip frame and substitute whatever one desires...

If it is the knuckle busting I am very slowly playing with some sacrificial frames to see what can be done along the lines of a Rogers and Remington ....

but then it will be another "neverwas"  ....

yhs
prof marvel

[Coffinmaker]

Ah My Good Professor   

And a happy Howdy Doody too ya two!!  Most happy too elucidate.  First .... Remingtons are ..... well ..... Ugly.  Colt pattern guns be suave and sleek.  They look right and fit the hand, balancing well, all of those intangible but describable things.

Then we have the pain.  Remington(s) bark my Social Finger something fierce.  Matters not how I hold em, what after-market grips I use, nada.  Remingtons' just assault me.  I don't like to be assaulted.  Atz why I also don't care for square back trigger guards onna Colt.  Peculiar I am ... or is it Particular.  Anyway ...... I just don't like Remingtons.

[45 Dragoon]

 Gotta agree with Coffinmaker !!! I just can't stand .  .  .  .  .  .  boiled okra!! Don't even like to look at it!!!

  As far as Remington's though, my intro to bp revolvers was a Rem. brasser ( 1978 ish) .  Mid. '80s I saw my first open top and was smitten and the Rem.  .  .  .  .    became "ugly"!!  Years went by (lots of um!!!!)  and I found myself being offered a trade for one of my " lesser" O.T.s with a Remington in steel!  Hmmmmm,  well Rems. didn't really look all that bad now (2014 ish) so, it happened!   Then a 5 1/2" model showed up in my safe (with a conv. cyl. of course)!! What a handy carrying size 45C six shooter!!  So,  I like um again!!!  They don't bite the finger and are intrinsically accurate (specially in 45C). So, I spent much too much time trying to figure out a coil handspring setup for them that would be SASS legal (no drilling the frame and such).  Besides, that's the most broken spring in a SA (Colt type action) so if ya can't fix that problem, no sense in fixing the others.  Finally got it and figured out the other two (it's so skinny in there!!) so now one could have a Remington with a Ruger life expectancy!!
  So, I guess I said all that to say, whether it's an Uberti, Pietta or any of the other previous makers, they can all be "modernized" with coil innards which makes me (and others) happy!
   
  So that's my take on the current production (as well as previous) Remington revolver.

Mike
 

[Crow Choker]

Not to keep this thread from dragging on into eternity, I found some posts reference the arbor washer fix that not only advocating the use of #10 or 10mm split washer use, but some that advocated the use of a 5mm split washer. These were what I used in my split washer attempt to fix the arbor fit. I had musta have had a brain stall reference the 10 mm use as the 10mm would be to large in diameter. I found the washers I originally bought for arbor fixin, they were 5mm splitters. They're approx. the size of a Colt arbor minus a bit and are approximately the same size as #10's give or take in outside diameter. I still contend that some Uberti arbors are OK or so close that a shim or washer is to much as in four of my Uberti cappers and Richards II, although many out in shooters hands are not as has been mentioned. Not all of mine were right and needed fixin. My brass flat washers are .01, .02, .03, and .04" in thickness. A 5mm split washer is .03" in thickness and approx. the same diameter as #10's, my flat brass washers are of the same approximate outside diameter. As Abilene advised he believed newer production of unknown time period are a lot better than ones of previous manufacturer. Reference Remington's, I like them, do carry and shoot them, they're a stronger frame design but like the Colt's better, just something about the lines. A lot 'Prettier" revolver if that term can be attributed to a firearm. ---- Boiled or baked "Okra" is on my do not eat list-slimy concoction of whatever, at least as to my experience with the stuff.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

All things considered I would go for the third model Dragoon. Mostly because the loading latch is (somewhat) better and stays latched {usually}when shooting. As least if you stay away from warthog loads.
My third model is somewhat different looking because it has a fluted cylinder like the model P and the front and rear sight are dovetailed into the barrel.
I call it the 4th Model Dragoon. it is a lot heavier than my 1851 Navy but still fun to shoot.
Respectfully submitted
Bunk

[Pappy Myles]

Last year I picked up a pair of Uberti 1951 Navy - London Models from Midway USA .  On Sale for 290 a piece. Almost a sequential pair by 1 number.....  Added slix nipples and did some work de-burring and working on the mainspring. Stoner the face of the hammer a bit to remove the burrs on the cylenter stop pen that causes cap sucking.  And cut the v notch on the hammer a little deeper and wider.    The thing about uberti's is they take a .380 ball vice the .375.   Mine shoot great and handle great.

[Crow Choker]

My two 36 caliber cappers (1851 Navy and 1861 Navy) both prefer and have better outcomes with .380" balls also vs .375".

[JimCunn]

This is my first post, so please bear with me :-)

I have a Belgian Centaure (Centennial) 1st Variation, and Subvariation replica of an 1860 Army .44 made in 1963.  I've owned it since new.  It had two chainfires about 1964.  The second blew the barrel off destroying the wedge and the barrel stud/lug that accepts the loading lever latch.  Arbor is OK.  At the time, I wasn't able to find replacement parts that could be fitted.  I'd like to try again.  Any suggestions?

[Coffinmaker]

Well, lemme see.  That would be around 55 Years ago.  The Centaure has also been out of production for some years.  That would tend to make OEM parts difficult to find.  Your best and only choice is to Adapt and Overcome.

I would also suggest contacting Long Johns Wolf, whom lurks here on CAS City and had been known to have access to FROGS (Friends of the Centaure).  Might be able to help you find parts.

I personally have no idea if Pietta or Uberti parts are compatible but may be modified a bit to fit.

[llanerosolitario]

From a shooter point of view there are no advantages in forged versus cast....in BP guns. In smokeless it does matter however, as investment cast frames, tend to be designed thicker, while forged ones tend to be designed more gracefully. Original Remingtons and Adams Beaumont revolvers were a casting, including cylinders in the last one.

Second generation Uberti Remingtons are oversized, and look "artificial", not very much like the original. They are made using high tech electro eroding machining as the internal cuts are hard to mach8ne using traditional machinery. They are not known for being specially accurate among top MLAIC shooters....though probably Pedersoli is selling and Uberti revolver with a better barrel ( maybe a Lothar Walther?).

Piettas are closer to the originals...though Pietta employs very soft easy machining steel to ease production. They all shoot well, and have excellent finish. If only used with BP, it's a good revolver.

Brass framed Pietta revolvers are crap. The brass is not gun brass or bronze or bronze alloy but a cheap alloy that will tend to bend or stretch with use. I cracked a frame trying to unscrew a barrel...it cracked in the weakest part..the front lowest part with the  bullet shaped cut.

Old Uberti brass frame revolvers are good....very well made. Uberti Colt revolvers are very good revolvers.

Santa Barbara revolvers are among the better built and most accurate revolvers ever made...I had 2. They were made with excellent steel and even more excellent barrels. The internal parts were a bit delicate if abused.. The hammer spring was vey stiff, on purpose,  as demanded by World champions. It was a popular revolver among shooting circles in Germany, France and Spain, quite valued today but virtually unknown in USA.

The Centaure 1860 was the first and one of the best 1860 clones. Excellent finish, wonderful case hardening rivallling Colt's, good steel, resistant internal parts. I have one.

The Euroarms Remington  was  a great neat revolver...accurate, very close in size to the originals...nicely finished, well made...the ones with "Lothar Walther" german barrels, marked so, are much sought after. I am looking for one.

Feinkwerbau in Germany made top revolvers...rarely seen outside Germany and very expensive. The Rolls Royce of Remingtons and Roger Spencers clones.

Pedersoli is marketing a Remington Pattern revolver, very accurate, as I said, suspiciously close to the old Ubertis, with and oversized wooden butt that has caused problems in some MLAIC championships..forcing owners to reduce it, for wood excess. I tried this revolver...it is accurate!

Pietta is making a "Shooters" Remington model with a special "gain twist"barrel, very very accurate but expensive.

Pietta's standard Remington is  a good gun, thougth made with butter steel, at a very good price that shoots great and it is probably the best choice in Remington. For Colts, I would buy Uberti.

Second generation Colts were not entirely made with Uberti supplied parts...at least initial batches had frames made in USA if my memory is not failing, They are not a good investment.

I would avoid the Starr revolver by Pietta. Problems,,,..the originals worked ok because the faulty design was compensated with good steel. The Pietta clone is a lottery,,,it can go ok or be a nigth are. I had to repair one long ago..so long that I don't remember the problem..it was the SA model.

In short:

For top accuracy:

Dont buy Uberti Remington, but go for Pedersoli, Pietta shooters, if you want to buy new. Expensive.

Second hand: Santa Barbara, Feinkwerbau...Euro arms Lothat Walther, Pietta Newmann ( rarely seen in USA).

For very good accuracy and even top if you are lucky:

Buy standard Pietta for Remington, with a dovetailed front sigth, avoid brass, or buy Uberti for Colt...old brass Ubertis are good. I had a second model Dragoon by Uberti...accurate.

Other revolvers:

Roger Spencer., by Euroarms...a good revolver, sligthly heavier, with trigger stop. The Feinkwerbau german revolver is a mechanical wonder, hard to find in USA.

Revolver to avoid:

The Starr clones in SA And DA...faulty design, originals better than copies.

[llanerosolitario]

Haaa!!  Hey Mike!!
   Well said, and since I'm not retired, I'm sorta like the ferry operator in Outlaw Josey Wales .  .  .   I've gotta sing the praises of Piettas and Ubertis with equal "in-thewseeazum" !! I can say that the 2nd gen Colts / ASM's (without a doubt!!) slow the shop down considerably!! There's a revamping of my website (way over due) that will reflect this  .  .  .   I'll also be offering New "ready to go" in the box revolvers as well.
   As I see it, both Pietta and Uberti offer a far superior product than we had/experienced in our younger days and possibly (in many respects) over the originals! Therefore, I don't think you can go too "wrong" with either!  Since this thread encompasses all replica revolvers, (and I know Mike doesn't like Remington's)  the Remington versions are quite remarkable arms after they've been "serviced"!! Just thought I'd throw that in since nobody else had .  .  .  nice thread !!!

Mike

The originals guns are far superior to the Italian copies by far, specially Colts:

Piettas ara a casting, as I said, employing the softest machining steel in the industry. The Colts used better steel and were all forged, including small parts.

Uberti does employ forged parts and that's why they are more expensive, but both Pietta and Uberti lack the gain twist rifling of the Colts and the authentic case hardening of the original ones. Colts in their time were expensive guns.

That's why originals, when in good condition, all shoot well and in most cases, better than the clones.

[Crooked River Bob]

I started this thread a couple of years ago.  I somehow got distracted and had not checked it in quite a while, and I'm pleased to see the conversation continued.  The collective knowledge here is remarkable, and differences of opinion are expressed as only true gentlemen can.

I ended up with a Uberti 1st Model Dragoon.  I had a little trouble finding a Dragoon at the time, but Mike Brackett (of Goon's Gun Works) actually went out and bought one from a dealer he knew and then did the requested "Outlaw Mule" tune-up.  All I had to do was write the check!  I am very happy with this six-shooter.  I will say that any of the Dragoons will be "a lot of gun".  Old time plainsmen liked them for running buffalo... That ought to tell you something.  Might not be the best choice for a die-hard competition shooter in a match with time-based scoring, but that's not why I got it.

This has been a great thread.  Thanks to all who contributed!

Crooked River Bob

[45 Dragoon]

Wow!! Thank you Kindly Crooked River Bob!!! Dragoons are definitely "fun guns" !!!!

Mike

[Keith H.]

I've had all the different models over the 35 yrs. or so that I've been shooting them, armies, navies, walkers, pockets, polices, dragoons, and after trying and handling them all through good and bad, I decided to buy a 'last one' for me. Now we all know it probably will not be my last, but it's definitely what I consider the BEST for me. And that is the Uberti Second Model Dragoon. There are just far too many aspects of it that make it the best for me, it would probably take a book to explain them all, but there it is. Leaving her only black too, no conversion for me. A London Navy was a very distant second, but just could not catch up. If I were to get a London, it would not be considered my last, but merely as a kind-of little sister and friend to keep the 2nd model company...a helper if you will.

[Cowtown]

I know, I know... old thread. But still very informative and full of wisdom and great insight. Well worth reading several times.

Now you fellers got me wanting to get back into these masterpieces of the dark arts.

Having spent the morning watching YT videos on the 1862 Police and Pocket Police, that's now my hankering. Gonna hafta add one to my to my slowly growing collection of cap n ball guns.

I prefer the Colt style but I do have 2 of the 1858s that I have outfitted with conversion cylinders that are a ton of fun with BP loads.

All these guns do provide a feller with plenty of quality entertainment. 

[kwilliams1876]

Ok Ok Ok, maybe "some" of the 2nd generation Colts had issues, but surely not all. My '60 army, '51 and '61 navies are fine, and yes I shoot them. The most stunning revolver I have ever owned is a my Signature series Walker, the fit, finish, timing is just absolutely perfect and that says alot as I have had plenty of the others, the Centennial army, Navy arms, CVA etc all needed some extensive work. My new Uberti Scofield was a piece of junk. That all said, I gunsmith 5-6 days a week on black powder guns and have seen some real percussion revolver abominations over the years. If you get the chamber diameters the correct size from the start you are half way home. Uberti seems to have had a problem with muzzle crowns and forcing cones, maybe they fixed that. Heck ya' buy a saa Ruger and then spend 2 days tuning and de burring it.
kw