Carrying Six

[Coffinmaker]

OK.  Going Back to my original post, citing almost ALL of the know SA safeties in the universe, but now knowing it should be narrowed down to "Hammer Safeties" ..... Which means we have to skip the two position base pin (frame safety) and the transfer bar (frame safety) and arrive at my favorite of them ALL.

I'm right in line with CHT for a Hammer safety.  The hammer block that was "activated" by the pin in the Uberti Safety Cock Notch is perhaps the most ...... favored.  There were/are those that Poo Poo'd it because it was "Un-Colt" but it was very effective for the nabob whom wanted to pack a 6 Gun with "6-up."

I actually wish they still made them.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

OK.  Going Back to my original post, citing almost ALL of the know SA safeties in the universe, but now knowing it should be narrowed down to "Hammer Safeties" ..... Which means we have to skip the two position base pin (frame safety) and the transfer bar (frame safety) and arrive at my favorite of them ALL.

I'm right in line with CHT for a Hammer safety.  The hammer block that was "activated" by the pin in the Uberti Safety Cock Notch is perhaps the most ...... favored.  There were/are those that Poo Poo'd it because it was "Un-Colt" but it was very effective for the nabob whom wanted to pack a 6 Gun with "6-up."

I actually wish they still made them.

Yup. A couple o' months ago a fella on the wire had two used ones for sale. I snatched them up post haste.

CHT

[LonesomePigeon]

My Uberti Flattop has the hammer block. I'd rather have a no-safety hammer but if I had to choose between hammer block and retractable firing pin I'd take the hammer block. The hammer block still has 4 clicks and more importantly the trigger sits in the normal spot. The RFP has 3 clicks and the trigger sits too far forward when at rest. Unless Uberti thought the hammer block was not safe I don't know why they even invented the new RFP? Maybe they just think the forward resting trigger is less noticeable than the hammer block? You only see the hammer block when the gun is cocked and you only notice the forward trigger when the hammer is not cocked, six of one half dozen the other.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

<snip> Unless Uberti thought the hammer block was not safe I don't know why they even invented the new RFP? Maybe they just think the forward resting trigger is less noticeable than the hammer block? <snip>

  They went with the RFP for the same reason Ruger went with the transfer bar. These safeties are automatic and they remove the factor of human error, and therefore the manufacturers liability.  The hammer block is a fine safety device, BUT it requires the operator of the revolver to pull the hammer back to the safety notch. The transfer bar and RFP remove the human factor. In other words, shooters can load six and no longer need bother with situational awareness. Our entire society is moving in this direction and someday with cars that brake for us, let us know when were drifting into the adjacent lane, etc.
  Even in the microcosm of shooting and handloading, our world is filling up with things that remove danger for us. For example, Trail Boss and Tin Star- We no longer have to be cautious when loading because you can't double charge with this powder. Gadgets that let us know when our the powder hopper or primer feed on our progressive press is low so we don't have to pay attention anymore. Cars that automatically brake for us and warn us when we're crossing into another lane. Humans are being dumbed down at an alarming rate.

CHT

[45 Dragoon]

Trigger position at rest with the rfp is necessary because with the trigger at the rear position would have the firing pin in the forward position.  The firing pin position is totally controlled by the trigger position.

Mike

[Professor Marvel]

...
The transfer bar and RFP remove the human factor. In other words, shooters can load six and no longer need bother with situational awareness. Our entire society is moving in this direction and someday with cars that brake for us, let us know when were drifting into the adjacent lane, etc.
  Even in the microcosm of shooting and handloading, our world is filling up with things that remove danger for us. For example, Trail Boss and Tin Star- We no longer have to be cautious when loading because you can't double charge with this powder. Gadgets that let us know when our the powder hopper or primer feed on our progressive press is low so we don't have to pay attention anymore. Cars that automatically brake for us and warn us when we're crossing into another lane. Humans are being dumbed down at an alarming rate.

CHT

My Dear CHT -

I believe you have summed up the situation in a nutshell.

What The Great Unwashed ( and the corporate lawyers)  don't get are the resulting unintended consequences!

like
- people who freeze to death in a perfectly insulated house because " the heat didn't come on"
       and they "didn't know" that a dozen plumber candles in soup cans could heat up a 12x14 room   

- people who never bother to put up a larder with a weeks worth of canned food and several gallons of water and starve during
       a natural disaster becasue "the store is always right there"

- and now self driving cars that will make Artificial Intelligence decisions of which bystanders ( or occupants) will die in an untenable siuation , ie:
       the car knows it can't brake to avoid the jacknifed semi, so what will it choose ?
          + go left, head-on into oncoming traffic killing 2 vehicles worth of occupants
          + go right taking out a minivan full of a family, and possibly the car's occupants
          + go straight into the semi, killing the car's occupants

The lawyers are lining up to go nuts over that coming situation, and are already litigating several deaths caused by self-driving cars....
And the only thing they care about is "who takes the blame" !


I myself got lucky and recently snagged an old Sauer & Son single action with a perfectly nice "carry five" system. I got it dirt cheap
at the LGS because nobody knew WTF a "Herter's 44" was lol . I am perfectly happy with it 'cuz for my purposes most of the time if I can't do it with five I am in trouble anyway, and if I absolutely need 6 ,  a correct functioning safety notch with a hammer thong is perfectly good in my mind.

yhs
prof marvel

[Dave T]

  They went with the RFP for the same reason Ruger went with the transfer bar. These safeties are automatic and they remove the factor of human error, and therefore the manufacturers liability.  The hammer block is a fine safety device, BUT it requires the operator of the revolver to pull the hammer back to the safety notch. The transfer bar and RFP remove the human factor. In other words, shooters can load six and no longer need bother with situational awareness. Our entire society is moving in this direction and someday with cars that brake for us, let us know when were drifting into the adjacent lane, etc.
  Even in the microcosm of shooting and handloading, our world is filling up with things that remove danger for us. For example, Trail Boss and Tin Star- We no longer have to be cautious when loading because you can't double charge with this powder. Gadgets that let us know when our the powder hopper or primer feed on our progressive press is low so we don't have to pay attention anymore. Cars that automatically brake for us and warn us when we're crossing into another lane. Humans are being dumbed down at an alarming rate.

CHT

CHT,

You have struck the nail upon the flat part.

Dave

[Coffinmaker]

Yepper!!  PLUS ONE to CHT.  The Legislators are bound and determined to Legislate us to "DEATH." 

If there are BAD decisions and choices to be made .... I prefer to make my own .. thank you very much.

[RRio]

Lou,

I will look forward to hearing about your new gun's range day.

Coffin,

The extra long cylinder pin is just too cumbersome to use when drawing the gun to shoot it. I was asking about the various firing pin blocks and which one is most reliable. I've head complaints about the new Uberti system and don't know much about any of the others.

A Ruger would be the easiest solution but I haven't yet got past how ugly they are. (lol)

Dave

I've been using Ubertis since 1974, and just bought a new one with the new safety system. It performs flawlessly and tunes out very well. I recommend the new Ubertis.

[willy]

Well ,,just to add to this safety thread,,,I just cut an extra locking notch in my Uberti EL PATRON,,,because I use it for hunting .
And havin an extra round never hurts.
I cut it opposite of the ser# on the cylinder so all I have to do is let the hammer down when the ser# is under the top strap.

[greyhawk]

Well ,,just to add to this safety thread,,,I just cut an extra locking notch in my Uberti EL PATRON,,,because I use it for hunting .
And havin an extra round never hurts.
I cut it opposite of the ser# on the cylinder so all I have to do is let the hammer down when the ser# is under the top strap.

Interesting discussion

I am not a pistolero but I do own a ruger and two make believe colt capgunz (one of which has the safety pins on the cylinder)
The ruger transfer bar system works but also means I cant get a decent trigger on it for slow work.
Safety pins or an extra locking notch would seem to me to be the best answer (or one of em)

Anything like the dual notch base pin that needs to be dislodged before we can shoot would seem to me to run counter to the point of the excercise  ------ If ya gonna need six - its a fair assumption ya might want the first one quick and easy ? - going to bat with an empty under the hammer and five ready to roll might be a better plan? (than anything that slows down or fumbles that first shot)

[willy]

Interesting discussion

I am not a pistolero but I do own a ruger and two make believe colt capgunz (one of which has the safety pins on the cylinder)
The ruger transfer bar system works but also means I cant get a decent trigger on it for slow work.
Safety pins or an extra locking notch would seem to me to be the best answer (or one of em)

Anything like the dual notch base pin that needs to be dislodged before we can shoot would seem to me to run counter to the point of the excercise  ------ If ya gonna need six - its a fair assumption ya might want the first one quick and easy ? - going to bat with an empty under the hammer and five ready to roll might be a better plan? (than anything that slows down or fumbles that first shot)

The notch I cut was a locking notch on the cylinder,,,not the cylinder pin...The hammer rests between chambers..To put the gun into action is nothing more than cocking the gun.

[Abilene]

Willy, that sounds like a workable solution.

As for the two position base pin, that was for import requirements, as the cartridge guns must have some sort of safety.  So Pietta and Uberti both use the two position base pin.   Even the OT's and conversions have that fold-out blocking arm in the hammer. 

[greyhawk]

The notch I cut was a locking notch on the cylinder,,,not the cylinder pin...The hammer rests between chambers..To put the gun into action is nothing more than cocking the gun.

Yeah I got that - similar principle to the safety pins on a capgun - hammer down and safe but shes ready to go!

[Coffinmaker]

"IT"

"IT" is ready to go.  "IT"   I have never been able to attach a gender designation to a cold, unfeeling brainless lump of metal and wood.

[greyhawk]

"IT"

"IT" is ready to go.  "IT"   I have never been able to attach a gender designation to a cold, unfeeling brainless lump of metal and wood.

my mate Jack said .. we are two similar peoples separated by (how we use) a common language.

she gets attached (or used to be) to a lot of unfeeling brainless lumps of metal and other stuff downunder......

In parts of your country I hear it is now very uncool to attach the same gender designation to appropriately shaped and configured (but equally brainless and unfeeling) lumps of living, breathing human. ?   

aussie males hav recently been branded as uncouth, misogynistic critters...... gotta do our best to keep that alive too

[dusty texian]

my mate Jack said .. we are two similar peoples separated by (how we use) a common language.

she gets attached (or used to be) to a lot of unfeeling brainless lumps of metal and other stuff downunder......

In parts of your country I hear it is now very uncool to attach the same gender designation to appropriately shaped and configured (but equally brainless and unfeeling) lumps of living, breathing human. ?   

aussie males hav recently been branded as uncouth, misogynistic critters...... gotta do our best to keep that alive too

Don't feel bad Amigo , sometimes I cant even understand what them Yankee's are saying . LOL ,,,,DT

[Crow Choker]

I dunno know!!! I grew up and a lot of fellow shooters use the term "How does she shoot"-"She's not shootin right"-Gotta get her out"!! I'm a guitar player and here in the upper Midwest runnin a furnace to battle the cold robs the inside air of humidity. I have thing-ee's I either put in the guitar case or as in the case with acoustic's, ya put it in the sound hole that ya add water to at intervals that helps keep the moisture at an acceptable level. Just don't want that wood to dry out, can even crack if gets to dry. Anyway when my wife hears me say "I'm gonna water my girls" or "She needs to be watered"- the Mrs.knows what I'm gonna do. Humid summers, ya can leave em in and they absorb excess moisture. My Dad spent five years on the same ship (40-45, WW2) and he always called the ship "Her"!. Just sayin.

Regards to loadin five or six, when I'm shootin by myself or with some friends, at a private range, or my own, or walkin along a river shootin targets of opportunity, I always load six, it's a six shooter.

[Coffinmaker]

Yup.  I guess I don't truly understand the Conundrum about loading 6.  If you can't get it done with 5, perhaps you should have brought a SHOTGUN??

I'M with Choker.  If I'm just out rolling cans, shooting up plastic krap in a slough, Potting the odd feral cat, I load 6 and carry the thing in my hand on Half-Cock.  It is, after all, a "six shooter" right??

The five shot R & D conversion cylinders are equipped with an extra set of notches to lock the cylinder between chambers.  Done mostly to appease SASS rules, but works equally well for sporting guns.  As mentioned, at one time, Colt did the same thing.  As long as you have the cylinder in the fixture and have the Jig set up .... Why not??  It's a fine idea.

But and however, I keep coming back to getting it done with 5.  Oh, and someone mentioned how slow it is to pull a 6 gun with two position base pin and get it into action quickly.  NOT.  That's one of the reasons one chops and dresses the that two position base pin to make it a one position base pin.

[Cliff Fendley]

Yup.  I guess I don't truly understand the Conundrum about loading 6.  If you can't get it done with 5, perhaps you should have brought a SHOTGUN??

Ditto