Got a brand new 1861 in the mail yesterday...

SimmerinLightning · December 13, 2018, 11:28:40 AM

... and was all ready to come here and post pictures and show it off, but as soon as I took it out of the box I had trouble. It was all I could do to get the barrel off, which I know is not unusual for a new gun, but even using the loading lever to push it off I thought it took way more force than necessary. Then, it was all I could do to get it back together. So I tried to take it apart again, and now it was REALLY hard to get apart, and it flat-out will not go back together. Even with a good bit of encouragement there is about a .025-.030" gap between the frame and the barrel assembly where the two pins are, which is just enough to keep the wedge from going all the way through. I did notice two burrs on the arbor: one on the front edge of the hole for the wedge, and one around the end of the arbor. I thought for sure that was the problem but I have carefully filed them down to the point that I don't think they are the issue.

I took two of my 1851's apart and swapped barrels around. The 1861 barrel seems to fit on the other two guns just fine, but neither of the 1851 barrells will fit on the 1861 frame. They stopped short about .330" shy. They stop abruptly like they're actually hitting something, whereas when you put the 1861 barrel and frame together it becomes very tight before stopping completely.

I used a caliper to measure the arbors to the best of my ability, and they all three are the same size, about .420" so I don't think that's the problem. The only other difference I can see is that the two 1851 arbors have a noticeable bevel around the end of the arbor, whereas the 1861 arbor is pretty well squared off.

Any suggestions as to what I should do next?

SimmerinLightning · December 13, 2018, 11:36:03 AM

And as far as my skill level allows me to determine the arbors are all the same length so I don't think that's the issue either.

SimmerinLightning · December 13, 2018, 11:56:30 AM

I'm really starting to think it's the lack of bevel on the end of the arbor. Thoughts? Opinions?

Abilene · December 13, 2018, 03:40:41 PM

Sounds like a reasonable theory to me. Perhaps that sharp edge peened some metal inside the barrel hole when trying to reassemble it. But there are some good c&b 'smithies along shortly who probably know better. What brand is it?

SimmerinLightning · December 13, 2018, 08:09:18 PM

It's an Uberti. There are alot of machine marks in the arbor hole but nothing that looks like it should cause a real problem. I keep forgetting to check the holes in the 1851's.

SimmerinLightning · December 13, 2018, 10:46:59 PM

Well I took a Jeweler's file and added a slight bevel to the end of the Arbor, not very pretty but it is what it is. It definitely helped but it did not solve the problem. The barrel pretty much goes on as far as it's supposed to now but it's still really really tight, and the wedge still won't go all the way through. It hangs up on the far side of the barrel. I'm not sure whether I should taper the wedge slightly or work on the wedge hole in the barrel or what. I'm also baffled that neither of the barrels from the 1851's will go on the 1861. No change there. I really just cannot see what the issue is and I'm generally fairly observant. The problem definitely seems to be the 1861 frame or arbor, because its barrel fits fine on the other two pistols but none of the barrels really fit on it.

I really am beginning to wonder how they got this thing together the factory, unless they squeezed it together in a vice or something.

riflee · December 14, 2018, 10:26:43 AM

I'd be using a pen light to study the barrels hole. If that 61 barrel goes on the other arbors fine then I'd be studying the 61 arbor looking for any scuffs on it where it's rubbing hard. I'd be looking at how the barrel fits at the beginning of the barrels arbor hole when it's on the arbor as far as it can go. There may be a wide spot on the arbor where it's at the beginning of the barrel hole. You can see if the arbor is too tight there.

Turn the barrel with the bottom lug not hitting the frame and see how far it goes on the arbor. You know like you're checking to see how the barrel may or may not bottom on the arbor. In that position you can turn and twist the barrel on the arbor and then see if you can find a scuffed mark on the arbor where it's too tight.

Usually the Uberti won't have a bottomed arbor but you still have to consider whether or not the arbor is too long or binding down toward the bottom of the barrels arbor hole.

I'd be guessing there's a wide spot on the end of the arbor or a narrow spot in the bottom of the barrel hole. You could use a black marker to color the arbor where it goes in the barrel and turn the barrel when it's 90 degrees from the frames end and then look for a spot where the black from the marker is worn off. You could color the very end of the arbor to see if that surface is rubbing by turning the barrel back and forth when it's 90 degrees from the frame end.

Coffinmaker · December 14, 2018, 10:59:59 AM

What Riflee said.

You may need to make an appropriate size flap sander for the inside of the arbor hole in the barrel lug. I would also suggest, once you eliminate any burrs in the arbor hole, Stick the frame in a padded vise and polish the Arbor to fit. Using 220 or 320 Wet/Dry strips like plaiting a shoe. ALL THE WAY AROUND the Arbor.

It was assembled at the factory with a mallet.

First paragraph should read "polishing" a shoe.

Have I ever mentioned I absolutely HATE AUTO CORRECT

SimmerinLightning · December 14, 2018, 12:31:53 PM

I've been doing the 90-degree thing all along, I just didn't know how to describe that. All of the barrels slide onto the 51 frames so that they are just past the end of the water table, about 1/16 of an inch or so. About 1/16 of an inch too far, if you will. The 61 barrel and frame would only go together until there was about a .030 gap. After putting a little bit of a bevel on the end of the 61 arbor the barrel and frame go together until there is just barely interference if you try to turn it home so to speak. Not enough that you can actually see with the naked eye, but it definitely makes contact with the corner of the water table.

The wedge issue. Initially, when they barrel and frame would not go together all the way, the wedge was hitting the edge of the slot on the far side of the barrel. There was no question about this because it was actually starting to leave a mark on the corner of the wedge. Once I got the barrel and frame to go together completely and the wedge still wouldn't go through, I assumed that was the same problem. Closer inspection revealed that it's actually the tip of the little spring which sticks up too far, or is too blunt or something, so if I take a little tiny jeweler's screwdriver and push that down then the wedge goes through until the end of it is just flush with the outside of the barrel. It doesn't quite go far enough that the little clip on the spring engages the outside of the barrel. I figure overtime that will fix itself.

Don't know why I didn't think of the marker thing because I've done and read about that countless times. It does seem that the arbor is just ever so slightly bigger in the area where the wedge slot was cut. Not enough that I can detect with a caliper, but it certainly is rubbing there. I'll have to get some Emery cloth and dress that up. For now it goes together well enough that I think I can safely shoot it.

As far as I can determine the Arbor on the 61 is slightly shorter, like maybe a few thousandths, than the other arbors, both in terms of its length from the recoil shield and in how far it extends past the end of the water table, so I don't think it's bottoming out per se, although adding the bevel on the end seemed to solve the problem or at least help greatly.

One other issue I noticed that I don't think is causing a problem but just bothers me, is the entrance to the arbor hole on the barrel needs to be cleaned up. There is a thin "ridge" burr around the outside edge of the arbor hole, where they did not clean it up after drilling the arbor hole. It's around the outside, definitely not on the inside.

Lefty Dude · December 14, 2018, 12:53:59 PM

An other Deluxe Kit from Uberti !!!!!

Good Luck pard, be patient. You will "get-er-done"

riflee · December 14, 2018, 07:31:31 PM

What lefty said. You'll get it since you can see there maybe more than one trouble spot.

I hate when a wedge spring sticks up and stops the wedge from going in. I hate it more when the edges of the arbor slot aren't as wide as the barrel slot edges since that gives the wedge something to hit on and stop there against the inside edge of the barrel slot.

SimmerinLightning · December 14, 2018, 08:13:23 PM

Quote from: riflee on December 14, 2018, 07:31:31 PMI hate it more when the edges of the arbor slot aren't as wide as the barrel slot edges since that gives the wedge something to hit on and stop there against the inside edge of the barrel slot.

Yes that's what it was doing initially, I just wasn't explaining it very well. Now it's the spring tip.

riflee · January 04, 2019, 12:25:16 PM

I didn't say that right in the quote up there. I hate it when the barrels slot edges are smaller that the arbor slot edges. That's when the wedge goes thru and hits the inside of the barrels slot on the off side.

I should have been thunkin enough to reply much earlier about checking the depth of the frame pins holes in the barrel or just check the holes inspecting for anything obstructing the pins going in the hole.