Cimarron .44 Spl. Open Tops

[PJ Hardtack]

My new Open Tops have arrived and I must say that I am not impressed. In fact, I'm disappointed.

The loading gate screw on one was not properly tightened and the loading gate on the other does not close up perfectly without a little encouragement.

On one, I already have a drag mark on the cylinder as the locking bolt is not retracting sufficiently. As you rotate the cylinder by hand, you can feel more resistance in some positions than others.

Having removed the cylinders on both to look things over, I cannot cock the hammer on one of them to reinstall the cylinder. To remove the cylinder on one, I had to made a hardwood wedge and use a small hammer to get it to move.

If I had examined these guns at the dealer's shop, I would have rejected both of them. Now I'm stuck with returning them to the Canadian dealer in another province or paying to have them serviced locally which will likely void the warranty.

So much for the much vaunted quality and fitting of Cimarron revolvers ......

[OD#3]

I can empathize with you, and I'm so very sorry that you got a couple of lemons.  I wouldn't wish my kind of Uberti luck on anyone.  I just don't think they put nearly the same time and attention into their open tops as they do their SAA copies.  But unless something is actually broken on those two, I wouldn't send them back; you'll likely get two more rough ones in their place.  Again, as long as they're not actually broken, a good 'smith can get them working very well.  You would have needed someone to correct the short arbor syndrome anyway, so you might as well pay someone to do the whole kit and kaboodle.  I don't know who to recommend, though, since you don't live in the USA. 

I always assume a fair amount of gunsmithing will be necessary whenever I buy a new Uberti these days--not so much with their SAA's, but certainly their open top line.  While in the midst of trying to correct its flaws, I was cursing myself for not sending back my first '71-'72 open top.  But the experience served me well.  I've since sorted out a few more, and now I know what I'm doing when it comes to tuning and timing these.  I spent over $500 for that open top and many man-hours correcting its problems, but the practical knowledge gained was invaluable to me in the long run.  I may even hang out my shingle after I retire; I think I could make some decent spending money correcting Uberti's sloppiness. 

Warranty be damned.  Pay someone to correct them, or study up on them and figure out how to do it yourself.  You'll be glad you did.  Once these open tops are fixed, they're really sweet shooters.

[PJ Hardtack]

I've got a pair of identical Uberti Open Tops in .38 Spl. Great guns both. I expected better from Cimarron.

I've had it with correcting and rebuilding Italian revolvers. Done too many.

These are going back to the dealer for a credit account. I think I'll next try a Spencer carbine in 56-50 before I quit on Italian guns altogether other than those that I currently own that work well.

[Gus Walker]

Seems like a normal thing. I have a Cimarron 38 special opentop... The hand only lasted one cylinder full and broke in half,,had to replace the firing pin with one from the Possibles shop as it was piercing primers,,... had to polish the arrbor cause i had to use a wooden wedge to pull the barrel for cleaning...

[Crow Choker]

Hey PJ--sorry to hear of the tribulations you're having with your OT's. To have problems with one would be bad enough, but both-not good. Several have posted that you just send them to a smith or maybe do the tuneup your self to get them in working order, but I say get ahold of your dealer and Cimarron and demand two that are trouble free. For what you pay for them, you shouldn't have the problems you're having. I know many say all (or most) Uberti percussion and bored through cylinder type revolvers (OT/conversion) need to have the arbor adjusted, but to have the problems you're having is irresponsible.


When I bought/received my OT (44 Spec) in the fall of 08 I was disappointed with it. The rear sight had half of the right side missing due to a poor casting, the metal to metal fit of the frame and trigger guard was so out of wack a blind mule could have seen it, and the case hardening on the frame was non-existent of any color. I thought "pee on it"--Mike Harvey in Cimarron's catolog was proudly voicing how the Uberti products made for Cimarron received extra care, fit, and quality control that made them better than 'run of the mill Uberti's'. An article in either Guns Magazine or Guns of the Old West Magazine had a article where they interviewed Harvey and he explained the care Cimarron products had and he expected at the Uberti factory and how proud of his products he was and guaranteed them to his customers. After I had the OT for a day or two, I called Cimarron and voiced my displeasure with the OT, explaining the problems I that had with it and that I wasnot very impressed with it and wanted to return it for a replacement. I called the owner of the GS (FFL) dealer who ordered it for me and advised him I was bringing it back for return. I wrote a letter marking it for "Mike Harveys Eyes and Reading" that included my low opinion of his "extra care, tuning, and quality control" that he always stated his products to have. A short time later I received a call from Cimarron stating they just wanted to fix the rear sight, frame/trigger guard fit, and do something about the lack of any color to the frame. I said no--either replace it with a OT that meets Cimarron's voiced and written statements or give a full and total refund which would include a 'no more buying' of their products. I don't know if the letter ever was read by Mike Harvey or not, it did get the attention of someone at Cimarron who was part of the "Who's Who" because shortly after I received a new replacement that must have gone through "Quality Control's 4th level. Not one blemish-was a sight to behold. Other than doing a quickie arbor job (the use of several thinknesses of brass washers-didn't like the split washer fix) and had a bolt that was coming up on the cylinder to soon (replaced the bolt with one with longer legs-Cimarron furnished), I am pleased with my Open Top. Bought a Richards II (44 Spec) about a year later from Cimarron and it has been a dream piece. Arbor fit A+, fit and finish A+, and all action parts/fucntion A+. I did buy a Uberti Richards/Mason (38 Spec) from Taylor several years ago. Had to brass washer the arbor and tune the bolt a bit, but no other problems.


As I said, I'd contact Cimarron and tell them of the problems and demand proper replacements or if it is minor fix-let them do it. No sense laying out plus/minus $1000.00 for two firearms and have the problems you have and paying for it yourself.  If enough buyers contact a seller, they'll get the message. "Nip it in the bud"- (Barney Fife)! I don't know if anyone at Cimarron reads posts on the forum (I know at least one member has connections there), maybe that'll tell Mike Harvey and his staff something. Just my opinion and how I'd handle it. CC

[Abilene]

Uberti's QC is not consistent, that is for sure.  I have been lucky with every one of my many Cimarrons, other than the 32-20 rifle which has had some issues due to the bolt and extractor being designed for .38.  But I certainly have seen some poor workmanship on occasion. 

I have not been to Cimarron in over a year as I just haven't been available for the shows, so can't really help with this particular set of guns, but I think that warranty issues in Canada are strictly under the control of the distributor up there.  Another way Canadians get screwed. 

By the way, being unable to cock the hammer when the cylinder is out is not unusual at all.  One of mine does it, as the hand moves too far forward in its channel and hangs up without the cylinder in place to keep it back.  You just push it back in a little with your fingernail or screwdriver tip or whatever while pulling the hammer and it will cock.

Good luck, whatever you do.

[Coffinmaker]

Feel your Pain PJ.

Well, except for being on the far side of the Medicine Line.  Got no fix for that.  Unfortunately, the Uberti Open Tops are "KITS."  Really nice pretty, well assembled, shiny "Kits" but Kits none the less.  There is a whole litany of items and procedures needs done to make the Open Tops actually useable.  Really a shame as they are the most versatile Single Action guns on the planet.

I wish you good luck with the latest pair of 44s, no matter what you do.  Such a shame.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Wow, I feel blessed.  My Richards Type II in 45 Colt was perfect,  I have a 5.5" Richardson-Mason on order, and you have me worrying

[Crow Choker]

I think that warranty issues in Canada are strictly under the control of the distributor up there. 

I donna' know, I'd think a Canadian Distributor for Cimarron would be as liable for what they're in the business for (making Canadian $$) the same as a US distributor in getting problems solved and customers satisfied. Me--I'd be ringing their phone, knocking on the door, and divulging em' with letters to get the problem takin care of. Hounding Cimarron (US) and Mike Harvey would be on the list to. It's their/his name and reputation.

[PJ Hardtack]

Thanks for the commiserations and suggestions.

I do think that the guns should at least operate properly before leaving the shop. A customer should not be expected to tune, adjust or otherwise bring a gun up to spec. I wouldn't put up with that from my vehicles (or any other consumer product), why would I accept it with my guns?

These guns set me back $1255 before taxes and shipping. Damned if I'm going to spend a dime more on them to get them functioning. It's going to cost close to $50 to return them via Canada Post (after their strike is over) and I have the joy of contacting the CFC/rcmp to cancel the registration.

Fortunately, the dealer has a good reputation and offers a 100% customer satisfaction guarantee. The company was founded by a veteran who quickly gained a reputation for service.
There would be no point in contacting Cimarron at this time other than to express my dissatisfaction. All issues need to be resolved through the Canadian distributor.

If they offer to 'fix' them, no deal. Same for replacements, unless they came with an iron clad guarantee of hand fitted quality. I've lost faith in the product.

The case colours are pitiful and to remove the barrel from one, I had to resort to making a hardwood wedge and tapping it off with a small ball peen hammer. The other pulled off easily, almost too easily.

Buyer beware and regard manufacturer's statements with a grain of salt.

[Crow Choker]

Thumbs up to ya PJ   

[Jack Straw]

Sorry to hear about this mess.   So far I've been lucky and have won the Italian Lottery but there's still time to acquire a  P. O. S.   

On the other hand the Chinese Crap Shoot has been a loser for me.   My  most recent Cimarron TTN coach gun was seriously messed up and a trip to a good double-gun 'smith could not make it right.   I was so disgusted I sold it off as parts taking a pretty big loss.   I should have immediately returned it to Cimarron but the thought of a protracted UPS shuffle further turned me off.  At leas I got the sucker outta my life.

[Coffinmaker]

Unfortunately, the amount of work required to render the average Open Top serviceable, precludes "Hand Fitted" quality.  Having them hand fitted so they are properly fitted and work as intended would easily double the price.

I learned at an early point, with Open Tops, one does not quote a "flat rate" to set them up.  You wind up taking a bth that way.  Of course, explaining to brand new owners whit the actual cost will probably be, normally causes apoplexy.  It ran about 50/50.  Half of the folks sent the guns back to Cimarron (Cimarron exclusive then) for credit, the other half gave them to me and sobbed quietly going out the door.

Once properly set up ..... fantastic.  Until then ...... KRAP.

[PJ Hardtack]

Like I said earlier - I have a pair of Uberti Open Tops in .38 Spl. that I am quite happy with. I may just do with them and forget about a pair in .44 Spl.

Pity, as I have a lot of .44 Spl. and .44 Russian brass.

[Abilene]

Maybe just buy .44 barrels and cylinders and make your .38's into convertibles?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

OK, I got an Open Top and a Richards Mason both in .44 when they first came out, and both were a peach.  Then two years ago, I got a Pair of Open Tops in .45, and they were perfect.  Now I have a Richards Type II, and it is perfect?  Am I a anomaly?  Another shooter at out club has .38 Open Tops, and he loves them.

[PJ Hardtack]

Maybe just buy .44 barrels and cylinders and make your .38's into convertibles?

That's a thought .....

Wish I could fathom why I got a pair of lemons, but I'm not keen on making lemonade.

[Major 2]

That's a thought .....

Wish I could fathom why I got a pair of lemons, but I'm not keen on making lemonade.

however, lemonade is sweeter that whine   

[Blair]

WOW! That is amazing!
I have somewhere around 80 firearms in my collection. Ranging from originals to customized reproductions (some made by others and some built by me) to custom made firearms I built up from scratch. I don't even know the actual count myself at this point!
I like the OT's and other conversion types to cartridge....
My best,
Blair

[PJ Hardtack]

however, lemonade is sweeter that whine   

Funny - not!

I gave an honest appraisal of what I received from Cimarron after a four month wait.

Good luck on your next Cimarron purchase .....