44 Russian Henry?

Abilene · October 25, 2018, 10:35:27 PM

Mama Mia, thatsa nicea! (Italian for the Italian gun)

yahoody · October 25, 2018, 11:01:44 PM

thank you Gentlemen!

Dave T · October 26, 2018, 11:17:52 AM

Yahoody,

Thanks for posting the picture and story behind your Henry carbine. "Muy bueno!" The ferver here has turned me to the 1873 since it seems I must have a 44 WCF. (smile)

Dave

Tuolumne Lawman · October 26, 2018, 09:19:46 PM

There was a firestorm in the Civil War re-enacting community in Nor Cal, years ago (in the 80s or 90s). A guy wanted to use his Uberti Henry Carbine, and was told no. He cited Yellowstone Kelly's carbine. He actually got a lawyer involved...

Tuolumne Lawman · October 26, 2018, 10:22:52 PM

Quote from: yahoody on October 24, 2018, 11:16:52 PM
There was a reason for the 44-40. Better feeding on a tapered case and a better seal in the chamber.

Your article was well done TL. Nice work.

Thank you, Sir.

Major 2 · October 26, 2018, 11:36:06 PM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on October 26, 2018, 09:19:46 PM
There was a firestorm in the Civil War re-enacting community in Nor Cal, years ago (in the 80s or 90s). A guy wanted to use his Uberti Henry Carbine, and was told no. He cited Yellowstone Kelly's carbine. He actually got a lawyer involved...

Some insanity shown there...

on both sides ....
I'll not lead the thread astray with a re-enacting community VS Lawyer weilding jackleg
story of record on this side of the country as well....

yahoody · October 26, 2018, 11:42:56 PM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman... A guy wanted to use his Uberti Henry Carbine, and was told no. He cited Yellowstone Kelly's carbine. He actually got a lawyer involved...

You guys are killing me

How did that end?

I figured when NCOWS didn't understand what the 45CS brass represented for a Henry or any gun chambered in 44 rimfire, there was no need to support them. Makes no sense to me that a Henry in 44-40 can ever be called "more realistic".

We'll likely not see the 44 rim fire again. But it would be fun to have a Uberti or a real Henry from the USA (or a '66 for that matter) chambered ( and lifter down sized) to a case that is very very similar to the old Henry round and easily reloadable.

Major 2 · October 27, 2018, 12:28:29 AM

Your not alone, in the thought.... within NCOWS !

Course I do support NCOWS...for other reasons ....

yahoody · October 27, 2018, 12:38:26 AM

I get it. I like the history more than the shooting these days. Hard to take in a SASS match. But then what I wear every day for work here is more authentic than most of the "costumes" on a SASS match day. I get a laugh out of that too.

Major 2 · October 27, 2018, 12:42:18 AM

Seems we single handily highjacked the thread $:-\$

yahoody · October 27, 2018, 01:15:18 AM

Naw. Dave's thread and he decided a '73 in 44-40 was a better idea than a conversion using odd ammo.

Major 2 · October 27, 2018, 06:16:34 AM

Well in that case, I urge Dave to meet up in the 73 Board

and welcome

and I'll ask....

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman
... A guy wanted to use his Uberti Henry Carbine, and was told no. He cited Yellowstone Kelly's carbine. He actually got a lawyer involved...

How did that end TL ?

Dave T · October 27, 2018, 11:27:55 AM

I started this mess and gave up on my idea, but I appreciated Yahoody's report and pictures of Yellowstone Kelly's Henry carbine and would also like to hear what happened with the NCOWS vs lawyer business.

Dave

Blair · October 27, 2018, 01:56:10 PM

U.S. Military standards by 1865/66 class all arms with barrels of 26" or less as "Carbines".
This would mean the Military considered all Henry's as Carbines.

With that being said, I am sure there were issues (mishaps) with the complex tooling and machine work required on the barrel group on some Henry's. Is it possible some of these "mishaps" became something shorter than the standard 24 inch (+ or - 1/4") barrel length?
Did the New Haven Arms Co. produce something shorter in length than the standard and call it a Carbine? Something shorter than what was already considered a Carbine?
Just some thoughts on my part.
My best,
Blair

Major 2 · October 27, 2018, 02:47:01 PM

Quote from: Dave T on October 27, 2018, 11:27:55 AM
I started this mess and gave up on my idea, but I appreciated Yahoody's report and pictures of Yellowstone Kelly's Henry carbine and would also like to hear what happened with the NCOWS vs lawyer business.

Dave

you miss read the post Dave...TL was saying it was California Reenactor VS the Calif. Reenactor community over the Henry carbine ....

NCOWS has no such issue with the Henry Carbine.

Dave T · October 27, 2018, 02:57:03 PM

Can't seem to get any of this right. OK...my apologies once again. Think I'll be done with this one and just shut up!

Dave

Tuolumne Lawman · October 28, 2018, 08:53:54 PM

I was not a party yo it, but my shooting buddy Hanging Judge Hemp was.. I believe they finally told him to not go away mad, but just to go away!

Coffinmaker · October 29, 2018, 04:07:02 PM

Had I just. I have personally wanted a 44 Special Henry, just so I could run a mod'd carrier block for 44 Russian. 44 Special Henry rifles were/are scarce. Must have never been much market share. Bummer.

However, I've had .45 Colt Henry Rifles for ever. One day I got a wild hair and started working on a round to run in a 45 with a mod'd carrier block. I found I was working on the same thing Adirondack Jack was working on in parallel. AJ was working the project with the 45 Colt as the parent case and I was using the .45 Schofield. We got there about the same time but AJ also came up with a really trix Carrier Block that works a treat.

Even in the 45 community there has been/is resistance to the C45S and when they see one, the 45 Squirt. All kind of stupidity. Simply not realizing how versatile the C45S really is. Loading up 17 of em in a Henry is righteous FUN. But a heavy sucker. Doing the same in a carbine length Henry is just the ticket. NCOWS doesn't allow the C45S. They do allow the 45 Colt. And they allow the 45 Schofield. How they differentiate between three "never never" cartridges is beyond me although I understand, it is the purview of a single individual member of the ruling Junta. I do understand the the reasoning, 45 Colt and 45 Schofield actually existed in the time frame portrayed. The C45S did not. Never mind neither were ever chambered in any rifle. Kinda dumb.

PS: I have converted my Trapper length (16 and a quarter inches) 1866 rifle to run 44 Russian. It was a 44 Special. I just added a Smith Shop Carrier block. The rifle itself is a problem with with BP though. Have to anneal the cases.

yahoody · October 29, 2018, 05:04:02 PM

Quote from: CoffinmakerI have converted my Trapper '66....to run 44 Russian. It was a 44 Special. I just added a Smith Shop Carrier block.....

Smith shop carrier is pretty much required for 45 CS or 44 Russian in a '66 or '73 and it works pretty good. Don't see any advantage to the fancy $174.00 Smith Shop carrier in a Henry when a simple $.03 cent set screw, works just fine. All it takes is, a round of your choice as a measuring device, drill a hole in the right place on the carrier's side, tap the hole and wind in the set screw.

Tuolumne Lawman · October 29, 2018, 09:40:47 PM

Quote from: yahoody on October 29, 2018, 05:04:02 PM
Smith shop carrier is pretty much required for 45 CS or 44 Russian in a '66 or '73 and it works pretty good. Don't see any advantage to the fancy $174.00 Smith Shop carrier in a Henry when a simple $.03 cent set screw, works just fine. All it takes is, a round of your choice as a measuring device, drill a hole in the right place on the carrier's side, tap the hole and wind in the set screw.

I actually have a modified carrier for a Henry with the set screw. Used it with 38-40 case with florist foam plugs in the case mouths for blanks in a 45.Colt. It really worked sweet.