44 Russian Henry?

[Dave T]

Are there any custom gun smiths out there converting the 44 WCF Henrys to 44 Russian, or maybe even the 44 Special? The Russian cartridge is the closest one I can find to the 44 Henry RF.

Dave

[major]

Sent you a PM

[Galen]

I'd also be interested in that conversion.

[Will Ketchum]

There is plenty of threads regarding this. Just search for them

[Dave T]

There is plenty of threads regarding this. Just search for them

Well Will, I went back and read every one I could find. No mention of a gunsmith doing this kind of conversion. That's why I posted the question. Sorry if you think I'm waisting the forum's time and band width.

Dave

[Tuolumne Lawman]

One would think it could be done with a chamber insert like the ones they made years ago to convert 30-06 to .308.

[Books OToole]

I have a '66 converted (.44 special to Russian) by Colby Christie of Ottawa, Ks.
And a Henry (.44-40 to Russian) by Ottawa Creek Bill of Mooresville In. (?)

I don't think Bill is doing that kind of work any more.

OK Tom out of Kaufman, Tx can/will probably do it.

Books

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Wasn't there a discussion awhile back about just using .44 Russ cases in the .44-40 chamber?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I actuLly fired 44 Russians from a 44-40 revolver.  IIRC it split some of the cases. It was at least 20 years ago so I don't really remember. 

[treebeard]

If you load a 44-40 with a 200gr cast bullet with 26-28gr of BP and a 44 Russian with the same then I would think they would both have similar performance to the original 44 Henry. So my question is what are the gains by going to the expense of the conversion to 44 Russian?

[Major 2]

If you load a 44-40 with a 200gr cast bullet with 26-28gr of BP and a 44 Russian with the same then I would think they would both have similar performance to the original 44 Henry. So my question is what are the gains by going to the expense of the conversion to 44 Russian?

yeah ...what Treebeard said.... aside from obvious exterior look vs the bottle neck ( which with BP is a + )

[major]

If you load a 44-40 with a 200gr cast bullet with 26-28gr of BP and a 44 Russian with the same then I would think they would both have similar performance to the original 44 Henry. So my question is what are the gains by going to the expense of the conversion to 44 Russian?

One gain is that you can get 16, 44 Russian in the magazine instead of just 12, 44-40.

[Dave T]

treebeard,

I'll give you my answer. You may not like it, and it may not please anyone else, but it's why I ask the question. I no longer compete in CAS or anything else. I shoot for the enjoyment and the fun. When not shooting more modern guns which I carry for self defense, I become a history buff.

I want to experience a piece of American history, namely shooting guns from the years after the War Between the States and the turn of the next Century. For that reason I shoot 45 Colt single action revolvers, even though 38 Special would be cheeper since I have a Dillon set up for them. I load the 45 Colts with bullets weighing 255g, not 200g because the 250-255 was was standard in the Colt ammo. I fill the cases with black powder and compress it because powder puff loads would have been laughed at in 1885.

So, if I get a Henry (and I am just ornery enough to want one made in the USA) I want it and it's ammunition to be as close to an original as I can reasonably make it. If you don't approve or understand, well I'll just have to live with that. (smile)

Dave

[yahoody]

Are there any custom gun smiths out there converting the 44 WCF Henrys to 44 Russian, or maybe even the 44 Special? The Russian cartridge is the closest one I can find to the 44 Henry RF.

Last I looked and admittedly didn't pay a lot of attention to the 44 Russian while doing so, but isn't the 45 Cowboy Special with a 200 gr bullet a closer match to the 44 Henry than the 44 Russian?

Some how I thought so and converted a Henry and a '73 to 45 CS.   The Henry just takes a set screw in the elevator to get it done.  If you had a 44 Special Henry rifle you could do the same with a set screw to use 44 Russian in a Henry.   For a 66 you can buy a modified elevator like I used in my '73. 

Henry was The .44 Henry had a .446" diameter bullet  .903" case length 200 gr bullet
44 Russian was .429"  .970" long case  246 gr bullet
45 Special like the 45 Colt it mimics is  .451  and a .896" case length  200 gr bullet

[Tuolumne Lawman]

The 44 Henry had a 200 grain bullet, .445" diameter, with 28 grains of black powder.  When I had the .45 Colt Henry, I used .45 Schofield, a 200 grain .452" bullet, and 28 grains of BP.  It is .007" lager, while a .44 Special with a .429" bullet is .015" smaller.  It was an exact duplicate, down to the 1130 fps I was getting from the Henry.

The only reason I swapped the .45 henry for .44-40 Henry was blow back with the .45 Schofield case in a .45 Colt chamber was awful.  I had to squirt the lifter every other stage.  Even with Trail Boss, it was sticking by the forth or fifth stage due to blow back.  If it had a .45 Schofield chamber, the blow back would be much less, especially if I annealed the case mouths.

Right now, for my Henry, I shoot .44-40 with a 200 grain bullet, and 7.0 grains Trail Boss which gives me about 1130-1150 FPS. At the Railroad Flat night time BP side match, I shot 30+ rounds of .44-40 loaded with BP and had NO problems.In my 1866 which is in .38-40, I shoot a 180 grain bullet with 6.5 grains TB, for about the same velocity.

[yahoody]

There was a reason for the 44-40.  Better feeding on a tapered case and a better seal in the chamber.

Your article was well done TL.  Nice work.

[Major 2]

hmmm "  If you don't approve or understand, well I'll just have to live with that." ....fair enough !

to paraphrase Miss Mona Lisa Vito: from MY COUSIN VINNY

Imagine you're a deer. You're prancing along, you get thirsty, you spot a little brook, you put your little deer lips down to the cool clear water... BAM! A ******* bullet rips off part of your head! Your brains are laying on the ground in little bloody pieces! Now I ask ya. Would you give a **** what caliber the "GUY" who shot you had his Henry chambered in ?


or words to that effect  

[Dave T]

Well...obviously I'm an idiot. I bow to the greater wisdom displayed here and will give up on the 44 Russian Henry idea. Instead I guess I'll buy a '73 for my long gun.

Dave

[yahoody]

Dave I thought your idea  was sound.  Just easier done with the 45 Cowboy brass and a 45 Colt to start with.  Easier to reload too.  You can shoot the same ammo ( BP or smokeless) out of your 45 hand guns too.   I like my 18" Henry carbine.  It holds 12 of the 200gr loads in the 18" mag tube.   A 24" would get mighty heavy with a full load of ammo.

Yellowstone Kelly liked his carbine

"according to George Madis this Henry was purchased from the heirs of Yellowstone Kelly in 1963. Also, Kelly in his memoirs written in 1868, recants that he bought a Henry carbine and "killed many buffalo with it".



Aint kilt no buff with mine yet but it does well on paper!



I liked it enough to have it engraved.  With the 18" barrel it is a handy size and weight.  You can easily single load it with 45 Colt ammo with the 45 CS lifter still in the gun or just change it back to 45 Colt by changing out the lifter.   I'm happy to bang away with the 12+1 the gun will hold with the smaller case.




   

[dusty texian]

Very nice . ,,,DT