Euroarms 1851 Navy

[treebeard]

Today I picked up a Euroarms 1851 Navy made in 1998. It is unfired but cylinder has been rotated a number of times indicated by pings to the edge of each leadin to the notch for the bolt. The ping is on the side closest to the nipple. I am hoping that the information about tuning the Pietta on this forum will help me diagnose the problem and fix it. Is the Euroarms problems most comparable to the Pietta to Uberti?
I also noticed that there is no gap between the cylinder face and breech face.

[Crow Choker]

My first percussion revolver was a Euroams 1851 Navy in 44 caliber, bought it new at a local gun show in 1972 or 73 for around $42.00. Was a good shooter most of the time, but once in a while had timing issues. Also caps liked to come off on occasion, used what was available, didn't have much for choice as now, nor any replacement nipples such as Treso's or SlixShots. Shot .451 diameter balls out of it, never did slug it, maybe that's why it wasn't very accurate, should have been using .454's maybe.  At that time bought what was available and was told 'that's what it takes."  Accidently ended up in a bunch of items destined for a burn pile, when I wondered where it was it dawned on me "Oh-Oh"! Went to burn pit and scraped through ashes and "Lo and behold"! Felt sort of like Josey Wales. Metal got pretty hot-springs had all lost their temper, brass was different color-steel was the color of a super blued/black gun. Never put her back in service, didn't trust metal strength. Did buy a new set of grips and new springs with the intent to make a wall hanger out of it. Still all oiled and greased up-some day, call it my Josey Wales gun. Did buy a replacement Pietta 1851 Navy 44 caliber around ten years ago as I like the model, but prefer the 44 caliber.

treebeard--you make reference to the 'pings' on the cylinder leadins caused by the bolt peening it. When you say it "is on the side closest to the nipple" are you refering that the pinging is occuring on to just the front half of the lead in (ie side closest to the nipple)?  I had same problem with two Uberti's. One a '72 Open Top that had to short of legs on the bolt. The bolt was being released to soon off of the cam and beating the 'crap' out of the cylinder approx 1/8" before the leadin. Cimarron replaced bolt and problem taken care of. My other problem child was a Richards-Mason that was similar to what you've described with your cylinder/bolt. Seems that whomever did the final fitting and quality control in Italy didn't match up the bolt cuts/leadins with the bolt very well. I widened the leadin's a hair towards the 'barrel'side and reshaped the bolt to fit better. Should have sent it back to Taylor's but didn't want the hassle. Works and functions fine now.


10/16-Edited post as to where I widen'd the leadin's on the cylinder. Did so on the barrel side--not towards the nipple side of the cylinder as previously posted. Would not have made much difference as to what was casuing the problem and the Rx needed to fix, just different spot on the cylinder. CC

[treebeard]

Thanks Crow Choker for your input. I should have time today to disassemble the 1851 and look at the bolt etc.. I have several decades shooting Remington types in NSSA regional shoots. With the Rems I have not had to deal with these problems so I am going to be in a learning curve.

[Coffinmaker]

Treebeard,

First, let us start at the front and work back.  Gun sounds like a Uberti.  SO:  Get the barrel off.  See if it will rotate and move freely.  If not, put the frame in a padded vice and clean up the end of the Arbor with some 220 Wet/Dry.  Make a strap and run it like polishing shoes, all the way around.  Check the bore in the barrel lug for burrs.  Make a flap sander and clean up the inside of that bore.  You want the barrel to rotate and slide freely on the Arbor.  No slop, just rotate freely.  When you can do that, put the barrel on the arbor until it bottoms out.  The bottom of the barrel lug should just touch the bottom of the frame at the locator pins.  If it moves back toward the cylinder, you will have to fix the barrel to arbor fit.  Follow Larsen E. Pettifoggers tutorial or try dropping a 10mm split washer in the bore and reassemble.  You will need to fit the wedge.  This is ABSOLUTELY your FIRST fix.

If the "ping" you describe is at the beginning of the lead on the cylinder, the bolt has been altered and bolt rise is too early.  If the ping is on the far side of the cylinder notch, the bolt may not be fit to the cylinder slots.  Fix the bolt (Pettifogger again).  If the ping is immediately next to the cylinder slot, timing is off and the bolt leg must be adjusted to be a hair (thin hair please) shorter.  If the ping is on the far side of the slot, the bolt may not be retracting soon enough and the hand will have to be adjusted just a hair (really thin hair).  You may wish to see if Slix nipples will fit.  May be Uberti thread or Pietta.  You SHOULD reduce the trigger/bolt spring.  It's too heavy.  I suggest replacing with a wire trigger bolt spring as I don't know if your gun will take a Uberti or Pietta spring.  A Wire spring is easily fit and will require no "adjustment" and a lighter spring will reduce wear from the bolt rise.

Replacement parts should be available as long as the gun is either a Uberti or Pietta.  Pietta will also work in most ASMs.  Don't get in a hurry.  It should turn out to be really fun gun.

[treebeard]

Coffinmaker— thanks for the post— I intend to go slow and use this '51 as a learning experience and I just do not want to damage it. I managed aftermuch angony to post a picture of the cylinder area to Imgur.com to clear up any questions as to the area I am concerned about. I have so far not been able to post to this site.

[Isom]

Treebeard,
if you go to ( The Open Range .com ), it's a defunct site but still open. Go to, " Firearms, Leather and Gunsmithing" , you'll find a sticky by Larson E. Pettifogger about tuning open-tops. A wealth of information.
Isom

[Coal Creek Griff]

Treebeard,
if you go to ( The Open Range .com ), it's a defunct site but still open. Go to, " Firearms, Leather and Gunsmithing" , you'll find a sticky by Larson E. Pettifogger about tuning open-tops. A wealth of information.
Isom

Here's the link: http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7988.0

CC Griff

[Isom]

Sorry for the wrong info Tree,,,,,,, that's what working from memory'll do for ya'. Glad it was corrected.
Isom

[treebeard]

Thanks for the Pettifogger link i had seen it before but could not find it again. I removed the barrel and cylinder and it was obvious that  no apparent effort was given by the Euroarms assembler to fit the bolt. Part of the bolt as cast was hitting the lead in improperly and causing the problem i described in my original post. Also a prelimanary exam indicates most of the potential problems with these open tops that need to be addressed in Pettifoggers tutorials will have to be performed here.
I hope the current crop of Uberti and Pietta Colt types are better that what i am looking at.

Thanks again for the advice and help---again i  am viewing this as a learning experience