Why Don't We have..........

[Fox Creek Kid]

a neat Spencer "logo" on this forum like NCOWS, etc. has on their forums?  Any ideas?

[Two Flints]

Like this?

http://www.cascity.com/sss/

Two Flints

[Fox Creek Kid]

Now we're talking! How 'bout using the real carbine instead of the flag......

[Two Flints]

Hi,

That "flag" or badge/insignia, was adopted by Union General James H. Wilson in 1864 for his "Wilson's Cavalry Corps". The insignia consisted of a "carbine from which was suspended, by chains, a red Swallow-tailed guidon, bearing gilt crossed sabres".  All of the army corps adopted distinctive badges with just two exceptions, the Thirteenth and Twenty-First Corps.  Badges were first authorized to be used by the Army of the Potomic on July 21, 1863.

The flag is historically correct.  I would think it's very appropriate to represent the Spencer Shooting Society.

Two Flints

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Great choice Two Flints, I agree!@

[St. George]

But - the 'real' Corps badge actually features a Sharps...

Scouts Out!

[Two Flints]

Hi St. George,

I am using the Roy M. Marcot book, Spencer Repeating Firearms," as my source of information.  On page 75, upper left-hand corner, you will find the following comment:  "Badge of General Wilson's Cavalry Corps: officially, "The Cavalry Corps of the Military Division of the Mississippi."  "Not the Spencer carbine on the badge."

It sure looks like a Spencer to me!

Two Flints

[St. George]

I was going by original badges of the period - all jeweler-made - all 'attributed' - all Sharps...

Not owning a copy of Marcot's book - I can't speak for any illustrations.

Scouts Out!

[Two Flints]

Hi St. George, and thanks again for your comments,

My original comment suggested that Wilson's Cavalry Corp were supplied with Spencers at the urging of General Wilson. The Marcot book has a badge/insignia illustration of the Spencer carbine attributed to Wilson's Cavalry Corp.  Check out the following link.  You will see a similar illustration as that one found in the Marcot book. 

http://www.members.tripod.com/adm/ad/popup_source.shtml?

The following comment appears with this link.

"Wilson's  Cavalry Corps   Military Division of the Mississippi  July 1865  Few if any original examples exist Documentation of consideration of the design exists. The designs illustrated above are taken from a loose folio that appears to date from the 1920s or 1930s and was a souvenir of a Civil War battlefield. Finding original images of all of the corps badge would be very difficult. Large numbers of veteran's badges, reproductions and fakes exist and confuse the field. Original badges were generally worn on the top of the kepi, left side of the hat, or over the left breast. Issued enlisted men's badges were cut from colored material. Officers' badges were privately purchased and often of higher quality. Both metallic and cloth examples of both officer and enlisted badges exist. The metallic badges were often jeweler-made, pin-backed and engraved with the soldier's name and unit.

Sharps and Spencers had many interchangeable parts.  And they are similar in appearance.

Two Flints

[St. George]

Not all 'that' similar.

Wilson's Cavalry Corps' badge description was that of a 'carbine'.

The originals that I'm talking of were of Sharps' carbines.

I've collected and dealt in Civil War and Spanish American War Corps badges along with US Militaria for awhile, now.

The article commenting on their relative rarity is an accurate assessment - 'real' ones are damned difficult to find and many of the truly 'ornate' ones were produced by jewelers for those in the GAR and post-date the Civil War.

That was a pretty common practice - and those who could afford such were generally also bigwigs in local GAR Posts.

Look at some of the photos taken in the 1880's and you'll see examples of some pretty interesting stuff on those GAR coats.

So far as I know - no replica, reproduction or fake has been made of this particular badge - though many badges from the time have been 'done'.

In that case - know your dealer - and insist on both 'provenance',  an inspection period and return guarantee.

Any honest dealer will do that.

Faking this one was probably too difficult and/or expensive - given the fact that the featured Sharps is in 14k - as is the metal of the basic badge.

Like I said - jeweler-made - and from what's known - fairly limited production - with all going to former Officers of the unit.

At any rate - it matters little.

What's important is that SSS' logo features a Spencer carbine prominently - and it does.


Scouts Out!

[Two Flints]

St. George,

Thanks for your comments.   Whenever I visit an antique store I kind of hope deep down inside that I'll come across one of those "Wilson/Spencer badges or insignias.  I know it won't ever happen, but it makes my visit,  while my wife is there spending all my hard earned money, a bit more interesting!

Have a great Holiday!

Two Flints

[St. George]

Two Flints...

Don't ever think that!

The 'best' stuff is in those little junk boxes...

Quick, true story - told choppily - and I even published a more detailed account in 'North-South Trader's civil War' magazine...

I had been researching my GG Grandfather.
I had a Daguerreotype of him - along with his distinctly-ornate saber.
One of my young Troop Commanders had pulled duty in D.C. and dug out all manner of Records on my relatives - so I had far more info than before - thanks to his efforts.
I was at a gun show in Lincoln, Nebraska.
Nothing...
I was BS'ing with my buddies from NPS who'd 'done' the Custer Battlefield excavations in the '80's.
A dealer known to all of us stopped by and we visited.
He'd had no luck - but spotted some 'stuff'.
I was bored and asked 'what' sort of 'stuff'?
He told me - and also mentioned a 'Tassel Badge'.
I asked what that described and was told it was a Veteran's Ladder badge - so I got up to see.
It was still there...
I picked it up - and looked - and it said 'Co. F - 2 - Iowa - Vol Cav - with the snowflake of Sheridan's Cavalry Corps below...
My fingers closed...
It was not only a Ladder Badge - it was Western Theater and Cavalry, too boot...
Then - the unit designator opened my eyes.
It was from my GG-Grandfather's outfit...
I asked 'where' he'd gotten the piece and was told it was from 'his' family.
I asked some familial names and none were known to him.
I bought the Badge...
Then - he told me he had a bunch of papers - and would I like to see them?
I did...
A week or so later - upon entering the kitchen - stacks of 'stuff' were everywhere and I was overwhelmed.
Picking up a small booklet titled 'Advice to the Young Married Couple' - I opened it to find the original Wedding Certificate to my GG- Grandfather and his first wife stuck inside...!

Turns out - he was adopted - belonged to a parallel branch of the family unknown since all of our older relatives had gone on - and had all this 'stuff'...

I had bought my GG-Grandfather's Badge...

So - keep looking.

Hope springs eternal...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Two Flints]

St. George,

I should be so lucky.  Thanks for sharing that nice piece of history with me.  Enjoy the holidays coming up!  Wish you well, and thanks again for your comments.

Two Flints