.44-40 sizing issue

LonesomePigeon · August 18, 2018, 10:51:00 PM

If I load brand new Starline .44-40 brass it won't go all the way into the chambers on my Uberti .44-40 Flattop Target. If I size it with my Lee die it chambers just fine. Is that normal? I kinda thought you wouldn't have to size brand new brass.

AntiqueSledMan · August 19, 2018, 06:28:09 AM

Hello Pigeon,

I have always sized new brass. Only exception was new primed brass.

Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

Baltimore Ed · August 19, 2018, 07:46:40 AM

My understanding is that the old timey dash cartridges 38-40, 44-40 are all over the map as far as chambers and brass dimensions go. Between original colts and winchesters and modern guns the location of the step varies a whole lot. But once the case is fired it will take the unique shape of that guns chamber. You can back the sizer out a bit as theres no need to mess with the shoulder then, just neck size the brass so as not to overwork the brass and shorten it's life. I've only been a dash cartridge reloader for a couple of years having bought a Winchester 1873 musket in 44-40 and a Colt New Service in 38-40. Both are no harder to load for than my 45 lc's except for being more delicate, can't bump the case or try to seat a crooked bullet, the case will buckle on you. Good luck.

Coffinmaker · August 19, 2018, 10:13:43 AM

L Pegeon,

Biltmore Ed is correct. While there are standards for cartridges, it seems absolutely NOBODY followed them so the actual dimensions of the cases for 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20 vary widely. HOWEVER:

You Should, Must, Need Too, Better run ALL new brass, no matter the cartridge or caliber thru your resizing die before you load them. While I really like and fully recommend and support Starline, there can be and are manufacturing variances. ALWAYS RESIZE new brass.

Roscoe · August 19, 2018, 10:57:43 AM

If new brass will drop in the chamber or gauge freely, AND there is still some effort by the expander, you don't need to resize new brass and are better off if you don't. What you might need is to shorten the trim length, which was true for me with my Uberti 1875 Remington Outlaw. Suddenly 44-40 wasn't difficult or temperamental to reload in terms of throats and bore requiring .430 bullets.

Chance · August 19, 2018, 02:10:50 PM

New Starline .44/40 brass does not have a shoulder and needs to be run through a sizing die before use.

Chance

Roscoe · August 20, 2018, 07:50:44 AM

Quote from: Chance on August 19, 2018, 02:10:50 PM
New Starline .44/40 brass does not have a shoulder and needs to be run through a sizing die before use.

Chance

Why does it need a shoulder? My new brass does not have a visible shoulder but measures .463 down to .435 and fits both the gun and the gauge, although it does need to be trimmed. Fired brass from my gun has a more pronounced shoulder. New brass that has been sized has a shoulder but not the pronounced shoulder that fired brass does. My context is RCBS Cowboy dies.

scrubby2009 · August 20, 2018, 09:30:09 AM

Loading for two hungry Ironframe '73's, I've gotten in the habit of charging my new Starline brass with lighter loads like Trailboss and fireforming them before reloading a second time with my preferred full-strength "store 'em for a rainyday" recipe. Hardly any crumpled cases that way, don't need to flare the shell the second time, .429 or .430 slip in with a nice consistent push.

Coal Creek Griff · August 20, 2018, 09:46:20 AM

My response is kind of a combination of the above. New Starline brass doesn't have a shoulder, but if it drops in/out of the chambers freely, it shouldn't need sizing prior to loading. On the other hand, as mentioned, it seems as if every 44-40 chamber is different, so what works for me might not work for you. I have and load for five 44-40 guns and I use Starline brass almost exclusively (it's excellent brass). For ease in chambering, I full-length size my brass prior to loading, although not all of my guns would require it. I also shortened my sizing die to bump back the shoulder slightly so that my loads will work in all of my guns (although not all require it). I do trim the length for consistency only to aid with the crimp, but I've not felt the need to trim to assist with chambering of the rounds.

That is what works for me, but, as we've said, there is little consistency between guns in this cartridge and consequently there are a number of different methods that work for different people.

CC Griff

Montana Slim · August 23, 2018, 08:46:12 AM

In addition to the "resize your brass (any brand) before first use"... Ill also add:
Always resize your 44-40 brass as part of every reloading cycle. It really makes a difference

If you have new Remington 44-40 brass, one must keep the sense of humor. I recently opened a couple packages of this brass I've had on hand for a few years. This brass is formed with an undersized diameter case mouth for use with typical cast bullet diameters (over .427). Probably made this way to permit Remington to load factory ammo with their jacketed soft point bullet. Seating a cast bullet (over .427) results in slightly crooked / lumpy necks. Was able to chamber & fire in my rifles, but not revolvers. First firing expands the case & they afterward resize & load as expected.

Best regards,
slim

Coffinmaker · August 24, 2018, 01:42:03 PM

I have found, if I carefully and patiently run New or lightly Used 44-40 brass, thru my 45 Colt dies, I get at first glance, a really wonky looking 45 Colt round. Really wonky. After first firing, however, it looks a normal 45 Colt case. The really nifty part about this, a 44-40 case, carefully blown out to 45 Colt WILL really mitigate Gun Gas Blow-By in most all 45 Colt rifle chambers. Really works a TREAT. The 44-40 case expands nicely to fill the chamber.

This missive, however, does not provide any meaningful assistance to the OP, nor anyone else with the slightest problem loading for actual 44-40. Of course, it wasn't intended too. I don't shoot 44-40 guns. Actually, no "dash" calibers at all. Therefore, if you should choose to completely ignore my comments and just move along, I won't be offended at all. Nada. ZERO

HAPPY FRIDAY ALL
Coffinmaker

Slamfire · August 24, 2018, 06:54:45 PM

" MR. Coffin .,, " ( laughing my *** off ) you D'a man , don't ever quit !!!! .

smoke'm if y'a got'm ,, Hootmix .

LonesomePigeon · August 24, 2018, 09:50:17 PM

Wow lots of replies to this thread, I appreciate it. I was mainly worried(or just wondering) if not being able to fully chamber unsized rounds was indicitave of some problem with the cylinder throats. I see that it's just the way it is. I think my solution will be to just size my new brass before loading.

Roscoe · October 05, 2018, 04:15:16 PM

A trailing thought here is that if one is loading .430-.431 bullets, sizing new brass in a die anticipating a .428 bullet will cause the virgin brass to gall on a .430 expander (44 Russian.Spl,Magnum). A workaround is to use the .428 expander (with no flare) after sizing to give a little relief to the .430 expander step. I have taken to spraying my new brass case mouths with OneShot (with time to dry) before loading with .430 bullets, skipping the sizer.

Note that I don't use .428 bullets, because the throats on my 1875 Remington Uberti are more like .430.

Baltimore Ed · October 05, 2018, 04:48:59 PM

I sized and loaded about 30 .38-40 brass into .44-40 loads accidentally. Didn't catch my oops until they were all in my mtm plastic boxes. Went ahead and shot them in my '66, resized them back to 38-40 and loaded them correctly. Talk about over working the brass. Now I check my headstamps. I would also add that I seat and crimp my 38-40 and 44-40s at the seating die, I'm using RCBS dies. Seems to work for me.