'Long Cylinder' .38 S&W conversion

Tinker Pearce · August 13, 2018, 12:50:48 AM

Some time back I sleeved the cylinder and barrel of an old beater 1860 for .38 S&W. This week I decided to try something different- a 'Long Cylinder' conversion. I turned a new cylinder out of H/H 4340 and set it up for a thin breech-plate (also 4340) and mounted a firing-pin in the hammer. It's also chambered for .38 S&W. I need to resurface and refinish the barrel still, but it's basically finished.

Long Johns Wolf · August 13, 2018, 01:06:54 AM

Nice job TP,
I'd like to know how she will perform on the range.
Long Johns Wolf

PJ Hardtack · August 13, 2018, 08:17:15 PM

A 'Steam Punk' snubby?

Abilene · August 13, 2018, 09:30:57 PM

He did it again!

Tinker Pearce · August 14, 2018, 02:34:26 AM

Took this'n to the range today, and it functioned well- but that firing-pin is a little too aggressive and punched holes in the primers. Easy to fix. Accuracy (mine, the gun's or both) was poor however. My supply of .38 S&W was limited, but I got to run a few cylinders through it.

This target was shot at 7 yards, and it's frankly a bit pathetic. I'll shoot it some more when I get back (out of town this week) and see if I cannot improve on that...

Major 2 · August 14, 2018, 07:46:05 AM

Did you sleeve the barrel to .357 ?

This one shot like that with 38 Spcl. I use these .380 sized healed base now....or try these https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/50rds-38-special-black-hills-148gr-hollow-base-wadcutter-ammo

Major 2 · August 15, 2018, 09:57:54 AM

DoH ! to totally read over " sleeved the cylinder and barrel of an old beater 1860 for .38 S&W. "

Disregard my .357 post above

My gun started as 36 Cal.

Pettifogger · August 15, 2018, 10:43:40 AM

Why .38 S&W? After going through all the trouble to make a long cylinder why didn't you chamber it for .38 Special? Lots of cheap brass and you can shoot modern .38 long and short Colt out of it. .38 S&W is basically an obsolete round that is getting hard to find.

Crow Choker · August 16, 2018, 09:20:34 PM

That makes sense Pettifogger. 38 S&W!!! Brings back memories of one night as a LEO. Silent alarm went off in a business that sold firearms. Three losers had broken in with the intention of stealing a bunch of firearms and when they realized that a number of law enforcement officers had all exits covered and were beginning a building search, grabbed various firearms and ammo. The clown I found was in the storage area trying to hide in large boxes that contained paper towels. I spotted him due to the fact that paper towels don't wear green stocking hats. Anyway ordered him out and after search and cuff found a Smith & Wesson Model 15 38 Special revolver in the box he was hiding in along with a box of 38 S&W ammo. A couple of the other officers found another clown hiding with a 12 gu auto shotgun and ammo. The guy I found advised that when they heard us coming in they decided to 'shoot it out with us', but he said he couldn't get the rounds into the cylinder. Not gun savvy enough to know that S&W 38 ammo is slightly bigger diameter than 38 Special. His 12 gu toting cohort couldn't figure out how to chamber a shell after loading the magazine. The 3rd guy hiding in the women's bathroom didn't have a gun, but claimed he was just riding along with the other two and had nothing to do with the breakin. Also said he went in the women's can because he figured the police wouldn't look in there. Not real smart crooks. All sent up river to think about their decision that night. Sorry to hijack your thread Tinker.

Jacobitejack · August 19, 2018, 05:19:20 PM

That's a nice looking piece. A number of friends have LCC's made across the pond in Germany. The usual specimens are made from 1960 Centaure guns. It is difficult to find a smith willing to take on such a project in the US. I had a pair made by a young local smith here in Amarillo who did an excellent job on my pair of 1960 Centaure's. He lined the barrel to shoot 44 Colt and cut to 6", fashioned a rear sight on the barrel, made the 6 chamber cylinder on CNC, welded the recoil plate, and pinned a firing pin in the hammer. He also slicked it up with light springs for competition.

I've worked up a nice load that shoots POA with tight groups at 25 yards.

I've made repeated attempts to upload a photo without success. I'll keep working on it.

Tinker Pearce · August 20, 2018, 04:09:20 AM

Quote from: Pettifogger on August 15, 2018, 10:43:40 AM
Why .38 S&W? After going through all the trouble to make a long cylinder why didn't you chamber it for .38 Special? Lots of cheap brass and you can shoot modern .38 long and short Colt out of it. .38 S&W is basically an obsolete round that is getting hard to find.

I reload .38 S&W already for some of my antiques, so I commonly have it around. I also have a bit more confidence that the open-top will handle it well; modern repros in .38 Special tend to be beefed up a bit over original-style guns.

riflee · November 24, 2018, 10:52:31 AM

Wonder.....did the new cylinder of that gun have a throat? Wonder....what type hand/pawl is in the gun? How is the alignment of the chamber to bore alignment? Is the barrel lined with 38SW or 38 Spl. ?

Tinker Pearce · November 24, 2018, 11:21:18 AM

Quote from: riflee on November 24, 2018, 10:52:31 AM
Wonder.....did the new cylinder of that gun have a throat? Wonder....what type hand/pawl is in the gun? How is the alignment of the chamber to bore alignment? Is the barrel lined with 38SW or 38 Spl. ?

Throats are .363-.364. The hand is the stock one that came with the gun if I recall. The cylinder was line-bored, and the gun is lined with a .361 barrel-liner. The only real flaw with the gun was that the trigger was overly light, which I have remedied. In subsequent outings the gun has been more accurate- or to be more technically correct- I sucked less.

riflee · November 24, 2018, 12:16:38 PM

A bullet for 38SW is a nominal .360 or .361 isn't it? Lead bullet fer the gun might be good to be .001-.002 inch bigger than the grooves in the barrel. The throats could handle .362-3 size bullets and the barrel could handle .362 or .363 easily.......am I right?

What size bullets have you used in then gun? I had one that was 1851 Colt with a cylinder sized fer 38SW and got good accuracy with bigger than 38spl size bullets. Of course I had to have the barrel lined. The 38SW was the British pistol size in WW2. Served them well I guess. I like the 38SW in smokeless but not real well with the black powder. My wife really likes ,and shoots well, with my Navy in that cartridge. I shoot it good to. Not a whole lot different than some of the 38SPL loads. Could you use fire formed 38SPL cases with a slightly larger expander to get 38SW size bullets in there? Maybe get a 38SW crimp die? That way the bullet would be closer to the beginning of the throat with the longer cases?

Tinker Pearce · November 24, 2018, 02:41:34 PM

In this gun I have used mostly .361" 150gr SWCs and have used exclusively smokeless loads- 2.5gr of Unique to be exact. I have a S&W top-break that slugs at .361, and have used bullets ranging from .357 to .363 successfully, in weights ranging from 125 to 173gr. The thing to know is you can get away with a lot in this caliber in a good-quality gun if you use soft lead bullets. You can cut and fire-form cases from .38 special, but you need a pretty high-pressure load, which should be fired through a more robust gun than a top-break. Something like a Victory model. This is because the part that needs to expand most is the base- where the casing is thickest.

Remington used to make .38 S&W based on cut-down .38 Special cases twenty years ago. I know this because they would chamber in .38 Special revolvers. These bullets often key-holed out of my Victory model (which was the only .38 S&W I had then.) Personally I just bought a couple hundred Starline cases a few years back, and some of them have been reloaded 8-10 times without any sign they are getting ready to give up- one of the advantages of a low-pressure cartridge, I suppose.

I actually reload .38 S&W with .38 Special dies, using a modified (shortened) crimping die. It seems to work just fine.

As to your final question if I lengthened the chambers to accommodate .38 Special .361 bullets will work fine without any modification if you bell the case-mouth slightly in the expansion die.

The supply of those lovely .361/150gr. SWCs has dried up, sadly. In the S&W top-break I've successfully experimented with both 125 TCL and 157 LSWCs sized to .357- I make sure to use soft lead bullets, and they upset enough on firing to take the rifling nicely- both have proven to be accurate and don't keyhole. I've also had excellent results using Hornady 148gr. HBWCs, which easily expand to fill the bore.

pony express · November 24, 2018, 05:37:42 PM

If you wanted to try a lighter bullet, maybe a cast bullet for 9mm Makarov might work if sized down a little( they're .365).

riflee · November 24, 2018, 06:25:24 PM

Would it be worthwhile to try ,"round balls", in that just fer fun and economy? Well, it's just been an interesting post and pics are a good bonus. Thanks fer the replies to the questions.

Tinker Pearce · November 25, 2018, 01:19:49 AM

Quote from: riflee on November 24, 2018, 06:25:24 PM
Would it be worthwhile to try ,"round balls", in that just fer fun and economy? Well, it's just been an interesting post and pics are a good bonus. Thanks fer the replies to the questions.

My pleasure! I actually swage bullets, and .375 balls would actually be a good place to start;nice, soft lead... Makarove bullets could probably be re-sized easily as well. Good suggestions; I should look into them...