origional 1866 henry

[olskool]

I have been a member here a while but I haven't posted much. I thought I would share this story. I met a man when I was looking on armslist. we were both in the same area of SC about 30 miles apart. I met him in a parking lot and bought a couple of old marlins from him. one day he called and said he had another to sell so met him, we made a deal on a gun, then he pulled another one out. my jaw dropped, it was a near pristine original 1866 henry/Winchester! he said it had belonged to his great, great uncle who had served in the civil war, for the confederacy of course. I held the gun and levered it a couple of times. what a great rifle! he was wanting to sell it but the price would have been out of my range. I gave him a couple of names of collectors in the area. I don't know if he ever sold it or not, just wish I could have taken it home,,,,,,,,,,

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Great story. Thanks for sharing.  I had a similar experience I have shared on the forum before.  About 1996 a friend who owns an antique shop in Jamestown CA. He called me and asked my to come look at a "cowboy rifle" someone was trying to sell.  It was what later known as the Fahenstok Henry". It was engraved with the owners name and Civil War unit info. It also had the tintype of him holding it and had his discharge papers. He said the owner wanted $13,000. I told him to mortgage his house and buy it. The seller balked though and later sold it at auction.  You can see it in Wiley Sword's book on the Henry Rifle.

It was so thrilling to hold that piece of history.

[olskool]

yea that is a good story also! the gun I held that day was in such beautiful condition it looked like someone put it in a closet 150 years ago and just pulled it out to show to me,,,,,,,,,

[major]

Was this the transitional Henry with a forstock?  Or did it have a loading gate?

[olskool]

it had a fore stock and loading gate on the side of the receiver,,,,,,,

[major]

Wouldn't that make it an 1866 Winchester not a Henry?

[olskool]

you would be correct, I am going from memory of 5 years ago. but I remember it being a 44 rimfire,,,,,,,,,

[major]

IIRC some of the early 66's were chambered in 44 rimfire and later in 44-40 central fire.

[olskool]

thanks major! now I don't feel stupid,,,,,,,,,,,

[Tuolumne Lawman]

95% if the 1866s were in .44 rimfire. Early ones, IIRC, were marked Kings patent improved Henry in or to capitalize on the Henry's fame. I don't think any were chambered in 44-40 but there were some at the end of production in 44 Henry center fire for foreign contracts.

Additionally the 1866 were only marked Winchester and were just referred to as"the Winchester Rifle".  They did not refer to them as 1866 model until after the 1873 was introduced.

[Buck Stinson]

The model 1866 Winchester was NEVER at anytime during it's production, chambered in .44-40.  Until the 25,000 serial range (approximately) all model 1866 rifles and carbines were marked with the Henry's and King's Patent.  Only after this serial range were these guns marked with the Winchester name.

[matt45]

Am I correct in writing that Winchester assembled some 1866's in the 1890's out of spare parts?

[Trailrider]

Am I correct in writing that Winchester assembled some 1866's in the 1890's out of spare parts?

Probably true, as these manufacturers didn't like having leftovers lying around when they could make money on them. At least some of these were chambered in .44 Henry Central Fire, which were sold to some South American governments. Of course, the breechblocks had to be modified with a centerfire firing pin.  Interesting aside... according to some measurements I've taken the .44 Henry Centerfire and the .44 Evans Long are just about identical!    No reason to suspect anything but coincidence.

[Blair]

It is not known when the production of the Henry actually ends because the serial numbering carries over into the production serial numbering of the 1866 variation with development and modification of the new arm.
When the production of the 1866 ends in 1898 or 1899, arms of this variation will be finished afterwards from parts left over from the original production within Winchesters warehouses. This will extend the serial numbering range beyond the production serial numbering end date.
The same will be true with the production of the 1873 variation, which ended in 1919.

My best,
Blair

[Coffinmaker]

There were "several" variants of the Henry Transitional.  I have seen photographs of seven variants.  Two different style of side loading gate.  Two had the "original" kings Patent loading gate (it was a "gate" copied by Uberti) the rest had the future "ladle" type loading gate.  One had an abbreviated fore stock.  As was Winchester's business acumen, all of the Transitional's were eventually sold.  The Transitional Henry morphed into the 1866.

As mentioned, neither the Henry nor the 1866 were ever manufactured in 44-40.  The frame and Carrier Block Mortice were entirely too small to allow chambering of the 44-40.  The last known "run" of 1866 rifles were in fact chambered in 44 Henry Central Fire.  None of those guns are known to have been sold in the US.  They were built to export contracts.  The guns went to Spain and South America.  A very few have been found in South America in shootable condition and repatriated.  Perhaps less then 5??

I don't remember where I saw it .... however there is photograph of an Executive Rail Car, belonging to one of the great early rail moguls with a pair of crossed 1866's mounted on the bulkhead behind the "Throne."  Give my eye teeth to find those two rifles.  Probably unfired.

[Coffinmaker]

Forgot to mention.  I shoot 4 Henry Rifles as my CAS Main Match rifles.  I wanted to get "close" to an original cartridge and magazine capacity.  All four of mine have been modified to run Cowboy 45 Special cases, which gives me great magazine capacity.  I started the cartridge quest when I first acquired a factory Henry Trapper in 45, with a 16 inch barrel.  Developed a round quite similar to the C45S so I could get 10 rounds in the magazine of the Trapper. 

Then, just because I can't seem to leave things alone, after I acquired my first Transitional, I converted my other Henrys to side loaders.  Way too KOOL!!  Henrys are fun.  Oh, my standard length Henry magazine holds 18 rounds.  Loads on Sunday and shoots ALL WEEK!!

[Buck Stinson]

Coffinmaker,  The photo you're talking about is an A. J. Russell photo, taken I believe in 1868 or 1869 inside a Union Pacific rail car.  At the very back of the car, hanging above the door, are two 1866 Winchester rifles laying across one another.  Beautiful photo.

[Coal Creek Griff]

I'll look for a better copy, but I think this is the one we're talking about...

CC Griff

[Coffinmaker]

Thanks guys!!!  That be the Photo.  Now.  WHERE ARE those RIFLES!!!

[Buck Stinson]

If you enlarge Griff's photo, they are above the door at the back of the car.  Just above the heads of the two men standing up.  There are also a couple of pistols hanging there also.  As a side note, a good friend of mine in Washington, had a one gun display at the Winchester Arms Collectors show in Cody, this time last year.  The one gun he displayed was a UPRR marked 1866 Winchester rifle, made in 1869.  His gun is less than 200 numbers away from my 1866 rifle.