Illegal colt markings?????

willy · July 06, 2018, 06:02:30 PM

I seem to remember a company that used COLT markings on their clones..Anyone know anything about this,,Like what company and what guns-- cap and ball,, and Single action army revolvers..?

Professor Marvel · July 06, 2018, 06:26:19 PM

Ah My Good ~~Willy~~ William -

I seem to recall (but I have been wrong before) that you may be referring to the ASM built Cap and Ball
pistols that were created from the remains of the Colt Blackpowder effort. After Colt ended the contract there were leftover parts that
were marked "colt" and they were issued a cease-and-desist... and changed the marks.

Oh, and the Belgian Colt 1860 "Centaur" may also have been one, but not I am not certain on that one

yhs
prof marvel

Major 2 · July 06, 2018, 06:42:38 PM

Your recollection is solid Professor ....

However

Belgian ~~1860~~ 1960 "Centaur" did not run afoul of Colt Legal depertment , however USPFA did and to avoid litigation had to relogo to USFA.

willy · July 06, 2018, 07:04:41 PM

My interest is in a barrel I got off e-bay that stated it was off a clone for an unknown make ...It is marked ...COLT'S PT.F.A. MFG.Co.HARTFORD CT. USA ...It also has the 45 COLT stamped on the left side...I would say it is an original Colt barrel but the it doesn't have the COLT SINGLE ACTION ARMY on the barrel,,Even if it was an early first generation barrel ,,it doesn't have a front sight like any on the first or second gen. colts I seen..The front sight is .740 long at the base ,and .207 wide at the base and tapers to .094 at it's top.The height is .363 and it doesn't look like it has been filed... The threads are 20 tpi...I thought I heard at one time ASM might have used the colt markings ..But can not find any info .

LonesomePigeon · July 06, 2018, 11:46:07 PM

I have seen a few old Armi San Marco SAA replicas that said "SINGLE ACTION ARMY" on the left side of the barrel but they did not have the Colt barrel address. I'm pretty sure some Uberti's were the same, "SINGLE ACTION ARMY" on the left side but no Colt barrel address on top.

BOOMSTICK BRUCE · July 06, 2018, 11:49:04 PM

i have an ASM "colt address" walker with all the colt markings on it in my collection.

pony express · July 07, 2018, 02:21:13 PM

I recall seeing at a gun show a cap and ball revolver marked "COTL" instead of COLT". I think it was an 1860 Army.

Forty Rod · July 07, 2018, 04:30:22 PM

American Western Arms ran afoul of something with Colt and was badly hurt financially and finally went under.

I bought a pair of .45s, 5 1/2" blued and color case hardened. Everything is interchangeable with the 2nd Gen SAA except the cylinder pin ( it's longer and has an extra groove to safetyfy it) and the hand and spring are a coil spring / plunger type.

I wouldn't trade mine for the real McCoy.

Forty Rod · July 07, 2018, 04:34:54 PM

American Western Arms ran afoul fo something with Colt and never recovered.

I bought a pair of 5 1/2", 45s, blued and CCH. Almost every part is interchangeable with a 2nd Gen. Colt SAA. The cylinder pin is longer and has a second groove to "safetyfy" it, and the hand and spring are coil spring and plunger type.

I won't trade mine for anything.

Bibbyman · July 07, 2018, 07:20:19 PM

Nothing new for folks to copy Colts. I think ol Sam spent a lot of money and efforts protecting his patents.

Here is a long YouTube video by Forgotten Weapons that show a table full of Colt copy revolvers.

Coffinmaker · July 07, 2018, 07:35:02 PM

Allow Me. The past closest copies of Colt were Armi San Marco. Armi San Marco didn't Mark their guns in any way that raised Colt Ire. American Western Arms, on the other hand, market'd a very close copy of Colt and were also foolish enough with Grips and Markins to draw the Ire of Colt. Sufficient Ire Colt went to court and for all practical purpose, put AWA out of business.

The barrel you got from eBay is most likely from an AWA. Stuff like that is what got AWA taken to the cleaners. AWA were real nice guns.

Forty Rod · July 08, 2018, 12:14:07 AM

The markings on my guns ( first models) are nothing like Colt but there were some gutta percha grips with a running horse on them. Didn't much look like Colt's rearing stallion with a spar in its mouth.

LonesomePigeon · July 08, 2018, 01:42:36 AM

With the American Western Arms I believe it was in part because they called their SAA replica "The Peacekeeper" plus the fact that it had a horse on the grips. The AWA horse did not look much like the Colt pony but the name "Peacekeeper" was already used by Colt for a double action revolver.

There is one other interesting possibility that hasn't been mentioned. There were a very few guns, or possibly just one gun, that was made by USFA with the "COLT'S PT....HARTFORD....." barrel address. Supposedly they(or it) was made as a sample gun for some kind of deal between USFA and Colt that never materialized. There is(or was) a picture of one of these guns in this thread, if you care to look through all 74 pages it may still be there if photobucket hasn't disabled it.

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/lounge/112715-usfa-pictures.html

Major 2 · July 08, 2018, 06:17:20 AM

Please don't take my point disputatious

In #2
I did mentioned USPFA US Patent Fire Arms was forced to avoid litigation had to relogo to USFA.
However, that in itself was not the demise of USFA ...

AWA woe's were indeed over the "The Peacekeeper" name and in part closed their doors for good.

Forty Rod · July 08, 2018, 09:05:02 AM

Quote from: LonesomePigeon on July 08, 2018, 01:42:36 AM
With the American Western Arms I believe it was in part because they called their SAA replica "The Peacekeeper" plus the fact that it had a horse on the grips. The AWA horse did not look much like the Colt pony but the name "Peacekeeper" was already used by Colt for a double action revolver.

There is one other interesting possibility that hasn't been mentioned. There were a very few guns, or possibly just one gun, that was made by USFA with the "COLT'S PT....HARTFORD....." barrel address. Supposedly they(or it) was made as a sample gun for some kind of deal between USFA and Colt that never materialized. There is(or was) a picture of one of these guns in this thread, if you care to look through all 74 pages it may still be there if photobucket hasn't disabled it.

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/lounge/112715-usfa-pictures.html

They had two versions. The Peacekeeper was the top of the line and The Longhorn was a less expensive version. I couldn't find any difference between the two and went with the Longhorn.

Graveyard Jack · July 08, 2018, 09:50:12 AM

Weren't there guns marked "Sam`l Cotl"?

The Peacekeeper had a real bone charcoal color case hardened frame, the Longhorn did not. I can't believe their research did not uncover the Colt Peacekeeper. They were nice guns but often undersprung.

Chance · July 09, 2018, 08:13:20 AM

There was a time, not too long ago, when a guy over here would, for a small charge, roll the Colt barrel address on your replica shooter or blank firer. Not sure where he got the die but it was just like the real thing.

Chance

willy · July 10, 2018, 06:11:59 PM

Quote from: Chance on July 09, 2018, 08:13:20 AM
There was a time, not too long ago, when a guy over here would, for a small charge, roll the Colt barrel address on your replica shooter or blank firer. Not sure where he got the die but it was just like the real thing.

Chance

Hmnmmm?...Now you've thrown another iron in the fire..

Johnson Barr · July 11, 2018, 07:48:15 AM

I have a 1851 Navy 'Cotl' with the antiqued 'American' finish that Cimmaron used on that run of Uberti's. Colt lawyers did the 'cease and desist' thing and of course they did. New in the box and un-fired. Gonna stay that way too.

Abilene · July 11, 2018, 09:13:00 AM

Quote from: Johnson Barr on July 11, 2018, 07:48:15 AM
I have a 1851 Navy 'Cotl' with the antiqued 'American' finish that Cimmaron used on that run of Uberti's. Colt lawyers did the 'cease and desist' thing and of course they did. New in the box and un-fired. Gonna stay that way too.

The "COTL" Ubertis are pretty unique. Cimarron got a run of them years ago. All that I have seen are antique finish. They also say "Ney Work City"

They are somewhat collectible. I'm not sure about Colt lawyers getting involved, because just a couple years ago Uberti did another run of COTL-marked guns for Cimarron.

Speaking of Colt lawyers, 10 years ago (?) those lawyers contacted Uberti, Pietta, Cimarron, etc (probably other importers as well) and threatened to sue over having the patent dates on the frames. Uberti said "Hah! you have no case!" and continued as they were. Pietta maybe got scared and took off the patent dates. So EMF's GWII's for a long time had no patent dates. When Cimarron added Pietta to their line they had them bring back the patent dates. I sort of assume the GWII now has the patent dates again but I haven't seen any of those in a while.