Schofield Uberti pitting from American Pioneer WTH!!

[Bunk]

Hello the camp,
Since fouling of the one true Gun Powder will attract moisture it follows that moisture will dissolve it. I use distilled water and Ballistol 1:10 (AKA Moose Milk) to clean all my cap and ball guns.

I use distilled water because when the "Moose Milk" dries it leaves behind the Ballistol and no water spots. My well water has a very high mineral content and leaves spots when it dries.

Perhaps I am being a little anal about it, but I usually only use the True Powder and do not have rusty guns. Using Moose Milk makes cleaning fast and is easy.

I have tried APP and it works well, and is very easy to clean but there is no local supplier, so I stick with the real Gun Powder like it says on old DuPont cans.

Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

[Dave T]

I tried to find Black Powder a few months ago.  But, even in Houston, nobody has it.   You have to order it and it's expensive because of all the regulation involved (which is why our local sporting goods store in Louisiana stopped carrying it).   I think some of our SCV reenactors pool some money and order some every now and then from somewhere.     All they have in our local stores both here and in Houston is Pyrodex.  (can't even find American Pioneer anymore...and from what I've experienced...I'm not sure I want that anymore either)

Getting back into single action shooting and previously having shot nothing but black powder in a variety of cartridges (principally 45 Colt) I went looking for black powder locally...and couldn't find any. Every gun shop and sporting goods store that sells reloading components I can reasonably get to refuses to carry black powder.

When I looked into ordering it over the internet it was prohibitively expensive. I would have had to buy 25 pounds at $30+/pound with the HazMat fee and shipping, and I may not live long enough to shoot up 25# of bp recreationally (to busted up to play the CAS game anymore).

So I found myself trying Black-MZ because I can get to Sportsman's Warehouse in 5 minutes and they have it for $9.99/pound. There was a learning curve regarding cleaning with this stuff (I'm told it is re-branded APP) but I found what works best is actually what I did back in the day with my black powder loads. Little bit of soap (I'm using Simple Green these days) in water out of the tap and then I wipe everything down with Ballistol. Since starting that routine there have been no problems with rust or corrosion.

And I might add, when I'm done shooting at the range I give the bore and the face of the cylinder and chambers a squirt of Ballistol and I don't have anything rusting or corroding for the next day or so until I get around to cleaning.

Dave

[Abilene]

...And I might add, when I'm done shooting at the range I give the bore and the face of the cylinder and chambers a squirt of Ballistol and I don't have anything rusting or corroding for the next day or so until I get around to cleaning...

"...the next day or so..." becomes "or so" for me.    The last few years I've gotten to where I do that with ballistol at the range and then don't get around to cleaning for a week or four.  Never a problem.

[Doug.38PR]

Since pryrodex is bad and i can't get black too easy:  maybe i should try my hand at making it.  Anybody do that?   http://www.askaprepper.com/how-to-make-gun-powder-the-old-fashioned-way-in-less-than-30-minutes/

[Dave T]

"...the next day or so..." becomes "or so" for me.    The last few years I've gotten to where I do that with ballistol at the range and then don't get around to cleaning for a week or four.  Never a problem.

I was hard wired about gun cleaning during an interesting 8 week acquaintance with a large man wearing green clothing, with many stripes on his arms, nick-named "Sarge". That was in the late 1960s.

When I was playing CAS I used to spend the rest of the shoot day cleaning two revolvers, a lever action rifle, and a double barrel shotgun. And, that was dis-assembling them completely.

Now age and physical condition occasionally dictates I put it off until the next day...but I always feel guilty about it. (smile)

Daver

[Bunk]

Making your own Black Powder? Not a really good idea unless your wife looks good in black and you have a wozer size life insurance policy ffor her and the kids to enjoy.

The EMS people hate it when they have to pick up a client with a stick and a spoon.

Manufacturers of Black Powder (classed as an explosive BTW) on occasion have an unplanned disassembly of their powder mill leaving a large hole in the ground and ringing in the ears of neighbors.

The developer of Pyrodex was killed when his plant did an unplanned KABOOM and he was the guy that developed it.

On a list of really bad ideas this is very close to the top.

Powder Inc will ship to your door hazmat included at a very reasonable price and you are around to enjoy it. This is not a plug but I have done business with them and have been very satisfied.
Bunk

[Major 2]

"...maybe i should try my hand at making it. "

Ah yes ...

Farewell and adieu to you, Spanish ladies,
Farewell and adieu to you, ladies of Spain
     For we have received orders
     For to sail to old England,
"And we may ne'er see you fair ladies again."

[Cliff Fendley]

Since pryrodex is bad and i can't get black too easy:  maybe i should try my hand at making it.  Anybody do that?   http://www.askaprepper.com/how-to-make-gun-powder-the-old-fashioned-way-in-less-than-30-minutes/

I've never tried but know those who have and most agree unless you have all kinds of time on your hands and just want to do it for something to do is the only way it's worth it. That and unless you just flat out can't buy black powder. Unless you live in some crazy communist state or foreign country you can mail order it and even pay the hazmat and be money ahead if your time is worth anything at all.

[Professor Marvel]

Since pryrodex is bad and i can't get black too easy:  maybe i should try my hand at making it.  Anybody do that?   http://www.askaprepper.com/how-to-make-gun-powder-the-old-fashioned-way-in-less-than-30-minutes/

what that guy just made is the worst grade of "green powder".  
lets see, let us count the many ways he went wrong...

poor choice of ingrediants.
- the potassium nitrate is "ok" but really needs to be ground much much finer, more like "dust".
- he does not mention where or what kind of sulphur he got (yes it matters)
- and only said "activated charcoal" which is actually a very poor choice.
       (the best charcoal is willow or alder that has been stripped of the bark"

it was not well milled, which is actually essential for good consistancy and combustion
and it was  not wet and compressed and grated so, in essence he has re-created the poorest of poor quality
"green mix" which might be ok for blanks, primitive cannon, or firecrackers. ... or not.

I've never tried but know those who have and most agree unless you have all kinds of time on your hands and just want to do it for something to do is the only way it's worth it. That and unless you just flat out can't buy black powder. Unless you live in some crazy communist state or foreign country you can mail order it and even pay the hazmat and be money ahead if your time is worth anything at all.

What Cliff said. In Spades.


if you really really want to get into powder making, Ignore the BS like you found. And almost all the crap
on the interwebs about doing it.

get some of the really really good books out there (NOT the so-called army and three-letter agency and
"improvised blah-blah" pamphlets)  

Look into "brush hippies" posts and videos, he is one of the few doing it right, but I even question his cavalier attitude regarding safety.

and heed ALL safety warnings, and never make very much at a time.  

And get and read everything chemist & BP expert "Mad Monk", aka Bill Knight ever wrote on the topic.

in fact do a search here on CAS City for "Mad Monk" for some useful and enlightening reading.


If one insists on making powder,  Remote property is good.
Using Small "bunkers" ( ie holes in the ground) for "doing stuff" in is good.
Lots of water available is good.
a very good working knowledge of the chemistry is essential.
NOTHING THAT WILL SPARK is essential, note the previous posts regarding kabooms.

Stick with making basic gunpowder.
Do not be tempted into any shortcuts, or experimenting with changing formuals or using any  of the wacko-rocket engine mixes.
AVOID AT ALL COSTS ANY FORMULA USING GROUND METAL or METAL FILINGS or METAL POWDER

Also be aware that if (when?) you ever do have an accident, (and survive) not only will you be prosecuted by the local
constabulatory and the Federales , but your insurance will not cover any damage.  
And you will never be able to get any insurance in the future.

My best advice, is to buy "real black" a case at a time from one of the powder houses,
or go to a Rendesvous and buy some.
or use APP.

It may seem expensive but is cheap in the long run.

Then learn to clean and oil  thoroughly.  Yes even with Holy Black.

No offense, but if you have found corrosion after "thoroughly cleaning and oiling" then, ummm
well....   you must be doing something wrong.

Smokeless powder and non-corrosive primers have lulled many into less than optimal habits.

Forget about solvents or chemicals.
Forget about patches until the end.

Dissassemble as req'd.
Use large volumes ( a 5 gallon bucket is not too much) of warm to hot soapy water, scrubbing with brass brushes,
many many many many many many passes of tight brass brushes with hot soapy water.
use a muzzle protector.
change the water as it gets dirty
did I mention hot soapy water?
also use small brass toothbrushes (and hot soapy water) to clean all the other bits.
then rinse with clean hot water. and use a clean brass brush again.
then rinse again.

do this with the bore, the chambers, the cylinder pin holes, pretty much any space you can get at.

now try your patches, wet, then dry. these are only to show any "stuff" you did not get.

now use oil saturated patches on the bore and the chambers, cylinder , etc.
finally apply oil everywhere with a saturated cloth.

re-assemble.

Don't mess with baking your gun in the oven to dry it off. Or using the dishwasher, for rudy's sake.
both are ( I will get flack for this) shortcuts for the lazy.

A less than thorough cleaning , then oiling, will only trap icky stuff for later unhappiness.

here endeth the lesson...

yhs
prof marvel

[Jake C]

You can order BP from Graf & Sons in smaller amounts. It's not cheap with the hazmat fee, but it's perfectly doable - I ordered some when I was working as a server in a fast food restaurant and still in class (ie. when I was about as dirt poor as could be). If I could afford it then, anyone can afford it with just a bit of saving and penny-pinching.

[Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE to Bunk

PLUS TWO to the Perfesser

There really are those folks who set out to make their own explosives.  Some as a propellant and some for more nefarious purposes.  Those that succeed have to immediately crow about their successes.  Those that don't succeed are often spread all over the landscape.  There isn't a single manufacturer of Gun Powder that has not had at least one accidental KABOOMB.

If one is really determined to make their own there are two considerations.  First:  Insure I am mentioned in your will.  Second:  Without a license, the Feds will frown upon your endeavor.  The Feds have no sense of humor whatsoever.  Third: I forgot there was a third) insure your proposed Munitions Fabrik is NOT located anywhere anyone your care about.

[Doug.38PR]

what that guy just made is the worst grade of "green powder".  
lets see, let us count the many ways he went wrong...

poor choice of ingrediants.
- the potassium nitrate is "ok" but really needs to be ground much much finer, more like "dust".
- he does not mention where or what kind of sulphur he got (yes it matters)
- and only said "activated charcoal" which is actually a very poor choice.
       (the best charcoal is willow or alder that has been stripped of the bark"

it was not well milled, which is actually essential for good consistancy and combustion
and it was  not wet and compressed and grated so, in essence he has re-created the poorest of poor quality
"green mix" which might be ok for blanks, primitive cannon, or firecrackers. ... or not.


What Cliff said. In Spades.


if you really really want to get into powder making, Ignore the BS like you found. And almost all the crap
on the interwebs about doing it.

get some of the really really good books out there (NOT the so-called army and three-letter agency and
"improvised blah-blah" pamphlets)  

Look into "brush hippies" posts and videos, he is one of the few doing it right, but I even question his cavalier attitude regarding safety.

and heed ALL safety warnings, and never make very much at a time.  

And get and read everything chemist & BP expert "Mad Monk", aka Bill Knight ever wrote on the topic.

in fact do a search here on CAS City for "Mad Monk" for some useful and enlightening reading.


If one insists on making powder,  Remote property is good.
Using Small "bunkers" ( ie holes in the ground) for "doing stuff" in is good.
Lots of water available is good.
a very good working knowledge of the chemistry is essential.
NOTHING THAT WILL SPARK is essential, note the previous posts regarding kabooms.

Stick with making basic gunpowder.
Do not be tempted into any shortcuts, or experimenting with changing formuals or using any  of the wacko-rocket engine mixes.
AVOID AT ALL COSTS ANY FORMULA USING GROUND METAL or METAL FILINGS or METAL POWDER

Also be aware that if (when?) you ever do have an accident, (and survive) not only will you be prosecuted by the local
constabulatory and the Federales , but your insurance will not cover any damage.  
And you will never be able to get any insurance in the future.

My best advice, is to buy "real black" a case at a time from one of the powder houses,
or go to a Rendesvous and buy some.
or use APP.

It may seem expensive but is cheap in the long run.

Then learn to clean and oil  thoroughly.  Yes even with Holy Black.

No offense, but if you have found corrosion after "thoroughly cleaning and oiling" then, ummm
well....   you must be doing something wrong.

Smokeless powder and non-corrosive primers have lulled many into less than optimal habits.

Forget about solvents or chemicals.
Forget about patches until the end.

Dissassemble as req'd.
Use large volumes ( a 5 gallon bucket is not too much) of warm to hot soapy water, scrubbing with brass brushes,
many many many many many many passes of tight brass brushes with hot soapy water.
use a muzzle protector.
change the water as it gets dirty
did I mention hot soapy water?
also use small brass toothbrushes (and hot soapy water) to clean all the other bits.
then rinse with clean hot water. and use a clean brass brush again.
then rinse again.

do this with the bore, the chambers, the cylinder pin holes, pretty much any space you can get at.

now try your patches, wet, then dry. these are only to show any "stuff" you did not get.

now use oil saturated patches on the bore and the chambers, cylinder , etc.
finally apply oil everywhere with a saturated cloth.

re-assemble.

Don't mess with baking your gun in the oven to dry it off. Or using the dishwasher, for rudy's sake.
both are ( I will get flack for this) shortcuts for the lazy.

A less than thorough cleaning , then oiling, will only trap icky stuff for later unhappiness.

here endeth the lesson...

yhs
prof marvel

Professor,

Your cleaning process is pretty much what I did.  With a bore snake as well as a brass brush and not with a bucket of hot water but water rushing hot out of the tap.   For HOURS covering everything

[Professor Marvel]

Professor,

Your cleaning process is pretty much what I did.  With a bore snake as well as a brass brush and not with a bucket of hot water but water rushing hot out of the tap.   For HOURS covering everything

Ah My Dear Doug -

in that case I can only relate what Mark Twain's said about the sick woman:
"She was quite ill and the doctor told her she would have to give up drinking and smoking.
Unfortunately, she didn't smoke or drink so she didn't have anything to give up. She ended up dying."

just in fun
prof marvle

[Doug.38PR]

Interesting enough, my neighbor today said he uses WD-40 as a BP sub cleaner for his hunting muzzel loader for primitive hunting and never had any more problems

[Cliff Fendley]

I'll still put some WD on a rag and wipe one down to clean and leave a level of protection on the surface from time to time. I learned from when I was a kid when we used WD40 more extensively that I never ever want to spray any in the action of a gun. It will dry to leave a nasty varnish that gums things up badly.

[Blair]

WD40. What does it mean?
WD = Water Displacement, 40 = the 40th formula.
It was intended to displace water from any unprotected metal surface long enough for the water to dry out or evaporate. This of course takes longer in a humid climate. It is good during the initial cleaning, but is not intended to be a long lasting lubricant.
The oil in WD40 uses a very fine fish oil that is highly refined and distilled with other petro products.  What kind of fish I don't know. That is part of the formulation.
I hope this helps?
My best,
Blair

[Blackpowder Burn]

Try ordering the real black powder from Powder Inc. (www.powderinc.com).  You can get either 5, 10 or 25 pound increments and their posted prices INCLUDE Hazmat and shipping charges.  I order Goex Olde Eynsford for $20/lb delivered in 25 pound cases.  Other brands can be had for less money.  They also have the subs if you just insist on shooting them............

Go in with some of your other shooting buddies and order a case to split.  I order about 1 case per year for my own use.

And Bunk is spot on.  I've been using Moose Milk and shooting BP exclusively for the better part of 10 years now.  The bores of my guns are still bright and shiny.  I shoot an entire 2 or 3 day match before cleaning.  No issues at all.  I was having a few corrosion problems using the new wonder synthetic lubes, but they all went away when I switched to Ballistol.  Go figger............

Why shoot subs when the real thing is cheaper, easier to clean and less corrosive?  Not to mention the real thing just smells so much better! 

[Dave T]

Why shoot subs when the real thing is cheaper...

Sorry but that is jut not true. I'm buying Black-MZ for $9.99/pound from Sportsmans Warehouse 5 minutes away. I probably won't live long enough to shoot up a case of BP ordered over the internet, no matter the price.

Dave

[Doug.38PR]

Well...I finally found a local store that carries Ballistol.  

Well, with the mess that the Schofield is in with that red brown grunk and all, i started taking Ballistol to it with paper towels, bore snake and bore brush.  Made an interesting difference.   Almost lifted that red grunk up right way.   The chambers and bore i pushed paper towels through from to back.   The towel was stained with red brown grunk that apparently was not lifted by pure hot water scrubbing alone.   I'd post a photo but i can't seem to upload it here from my iphone

Now the chambers and bore are black, bright and shiney again and not grunky and brown. 

[Professor Marvel]

Thank you Doug, that is useful info from the field!

I will have to locate some ballistol since I started using APP.

I noticed that ballistol was developed in 1904 by Dr. Helmut Klever in Germany. At that time they had to deal with a plethora of powders,
smokeless, semi-smokeless, black powder, cordite, and other "stuff" as well as the infamous corrosive priming materials.

Thus it makes sense that it works well on the evil red grunge.

yhs
prof marvel