New black powder convert had fun today!

TomcatPC · April 23, 2018, 08:42:37 PM

Hello
Got the first chance to take my Cimarron/Uberti Model-P/Cattleman .44 WCF to an outdoor range today. I took 100 smokeless and 100 Black Powder cartridges and never did get around to shooting any of the smokeless cartridges.
Had too much fun with the black!!! Yes it was dirty and I had to take it apart and clean up a bit, but well worth it.

I will save the smokeless for indoor ranges, where I got scolded for being a naughty lad and shooting a few black powder loads indoors...

These loads where a 2.2cc Lee Dipper (that size seems to work just perfect for me with a .44 WCF) of Goex FFG over a 200 grain bullet.
I think next time I buy gunpowder I might go with the FFFG? I choose the FFG in case I got around loading for my Martini-Henry this century and for loading shotgun shells. However I think I will be shooting more black powder so might as well accept it and get more!!!
Mark

hellgate · April 23, 2018, 11:07:36 PM

From what I've read, the FFg is about the grain size used in the 44 WCF original BP loads. I believe that Fg was what went into the musket loads. FFFg might give a little sharper recoil than the FFg loads. BP when confined to a cartridge is pretty easy to ignite so I'd go with the FFg loads if it were me.

Dick Dastardly · April 24, 2018, 01:07:41 PM

As a rule of thumb, anything 45 Cal and over gets FFg and anything 45 Cal and smaller gets FFFg. In other words, 45 Cal is the crossover point and either granulation will give good performance. For 44 Cal I use FFFg but I have no doubt that FFg would do just fine at SASS distances. For Scattergun loads I prefer FFg and even shoot some Fg in my 10ga guns.

Make smoke and enjoy the company. This ain't Dodge City.

DD-MDA

TomcatPC · April 24, 2018, 10:02:02 PM

I think the next time I am at a location that sells Black Powder I am going to buy some FFFG? I shoot .38 S&W a bit and could see trying it out in it's original load. Even if I don't own a .38 S&W Revolver that is meant for Black Powder, I can see finding one in the future.
Anyway, having fun with this.
Mark

Coffinmaker · April 25, 2018, 11:15:34 AM

You will find The True Powder, APP and Black MZ are addictive. Resistance is Futile. You will be Assimilated.

TomcatPC · April 25, 2018, 09:32:55 PM

Fine with me...
Mark

TomcatPC · May 02, 2018, 08:04:03 PM

I found a local source for real Black Powder today. I picked up a pound of FFFG. The next time I load .44 WCF I will use FFFG.
Think I might have created a monster!!!
Mark

wildman1 · May 03, 2018, 02:37:11 PM

With todays powders you can use whatever you want to achieve different results.
3f- a little sharper noise when fired not as much smoke.
2f- a little deeper boom than 3f a little more smoke.
reenactor or harzer powder- a lot more flame, a lot more smoke really great for nite shoots or if you just like being OBNOXIOUS, IT IS ALSO CONSIDERABLY LESS EXPENSIVE THAN THE OTHER GRADES OF POWDER.
wM1
you will note I did not mention 4f as it is for pan priming in flintlocks

Lefty Dude · May 03, 2018, 03:28:41 PM

I hear that 4F is wonderful in 32's. Just a rumor you understand.

Any one tried 4F in a 36 cal C&B revolver ? I again here some do it.

Dick Dastardly · May 04, 2018, 08:46:56 AM

Howdy Lefty,

Once upon a time I did try FFFFg in a ROA. I filled the chambers with all the powder I could get in and still seat the ball deep enough that the cylinder could turn. When I torched it off I noticed that the hammer was recocked and the cylinder rotated. I pulled the trigger again and vwala! I had me a semi auto revolver. After I emptied the gun I noticed blood running from my forehead. The caps had come back thru the hammer port and hit me in the face. Yes, I had glasses on. Thus, I've learned that there are limits to what you can do with black powder. Don't ever try this experiment without a full face shield. In fact, don't try it at all.

DD-MDA

hellgate · May 04, 2018, 11:13:20 AM

That's interesting DD, to say the least. I have a Lyman BP manual that lists all kinds of FFFFg loads for revolvers. (3 minute pause while I run downstairs). Yeah, Lyman Black Powder Handbook 10th printing 1992. It shows up to 41grs GOEX FFFFg for the ROA w/.457 RB @1036fps. Also there's a Curtis & Harvey 4F load of 41grs and 1021FPS. No pressures are mentioned for the ROA but multiple loads for the 1860 Army and Colt Navy with 4F are listed with Lead Units of Pressure (LUP) including 155gr cast bullets/conicals in the 44s. Max LUP load listed for the 44s was 8820 LUPs w/28grs +155gr bullet. 37grs FFFFg Goex +.451 ball gave 960 FPS @ 7420 LUP. Were you using hard lead?

wildman1 · May 04, 2018, 07:15:07 PM

The manufacturers of BP specifically say that 4f is for flintlock priming only.
wM1

medic15al · May 05, 2018, 05:37:54 PM

BAAAAHH! What do manufacturers know?!?

Dick Dastardly · May 19, 2018, 04:41:20 PM

Howdy Hellgate,

I was chambering DD/ROA 45-210 bullets lube sized to .454. The same load with RB wouldn't have developed as much pressure. The pressure didn't hurt the ROA a bit but it did blow the caps off and back thru the hammer port. The pressure was enough to cock the hammer and rotate the cylinder. The cap came back and embedded itself in my forehead. Blood ran. I didn't repeat the load.

DD-MDA

Crow Choker · May 20, 2018, 01:43:04 PM

I don't know why anyone would want to use FFFF for loose powder loading in a C&B or in loading metallic cartridges when FF and FFF are available. Even if not readily available, using FFFF grade isn't a safe practice. You don't put diesel fuel in your gas powered vehicle or vice versa if one isn't available. From reports and written material available doesn't sound like a safe practice. Sure, you might do it and get away with it (for awhile), but you can also drive a vehicle a 100 mph down a gravel road and get away with it (for awhile), but disaster will catch up with you in the end. I did see the end result once of a idiot who did attempt to do 100 mph+ on a gravel road once while a LEO, didn't work out to good for him or his passengers.

Quote from: wildman1 on May 04, 2018, 07:15:07 PM
The manufacturers of BP specifically say that 4f is for flintlock priming only.
wM1

Shooters take heed. "May not have a harmonious outcome" if ya try to use other than for priming. New shooters to using black don't take this post of using FFFF grade powder for loading as 'the thing to do'! Old time shooters and posters to this forum, IMO, suggesting or promoting using FFFF for loading black powder firearms or in those that may be strong enough to use either black or smokeless isn't a good idea-may give those who aren't aware of consequences, restrictions, etc, the idea to do so is OK. IMO suggesting to do so or the possibility to do so is irresponsible. Of course there may be or will be the tough tobacco chewing, 4-wheel drive, beer guzzling, macho, I can and will do anything types who will do it and decry anyone who says anything against it.

My 2 cents and sticking with it. CC

TomcatPC · May 20, 2018, 05:28:31 PM

I found a 70's era GOEX FFG tin at an antique shop for $10 today, best news is that it is almost full!
Mark

Cemetery · May 21, 2018, 10:00:44 PM

Quote from: Dick Dastardly on May 04, 2018, 08:46:56 AM
Howdy Lefty,

Once upon a time I did try FFFFg in a ROA. I filled the chambers with all the powder I could get in and still seat the ball deep enough that the cylinder could turn. When I torched it off I noticed that the hammer was recocked and the cylinder rotated. I pulled the trigger again and vwala! I had me a semi auto revolver. After I emptied the gun I noticed blood running from my forehead. The caps had come back thru the hammer port and hit me in the face. Yes, I had glasses on. Thus, I've learned that there are limits to what you can do with black powder. Don't ever try this experiment without a full face shield. In fact, don't try it at all.

DD-MDA

I tried a full house load of Swiss 4f pushing a 210g conical..........turned out to be a nothing burger. Felt like I was shooting 38 spls.

For big kaBOOM with the OA, I found a 50/50 split of 4f/2f fueling that 210g conical worked best. 4f in first, topped off with 2f. I found more kaBOOM with that then just using 3f.

hellgate · May 23, 2018, 03:55:39 PM

Or you could MIX the 4F and 2F to settle 4F grains between the 2Fs and get a denser load.

Bunk · May 23, 2018, 06:14:23 PM

Or you could just say "Bubba, hold my beer and watch this".
In my opinion this is not a forum for dangerous or stupid posts.
It is a forum where new shooters can clean good, safe. intelligent information.
I once flew an airplane through a tree top. Was it smart? NO!
Would I recommend it to any one. NO!
But I got away with it one time. note ONE TIME and ruined a perfectly new clean set of shorts in the process.

FFFFg powder is for priming rock lock guns and in very small (under .30 caliber) gums ONLY. To promote otherwise is, in my pinion, a wrongful use of this forum and misinforms new shooters. FFFg is the minimum granulation to use in anything under .45 caliber then move to FFg and that is that.
Gee whiz guys a modicum of intelligence here is badly needed.
Bunk

Dick Dastardly · May 24, 2018, 10:24:12 AM

Ho Bunk,

My bowler hat's off to you. No, we don't want to tease the dragon and this forum is NOT the place for macho or bravado. I related my sad performance to illustrate a point and now I'm thinkn' it might be better campfire talk.

DD-MDA