.45-75 Winchester brass

[Cliff Fendley]

Thanks for the info. Looks like its out of stock now you must have bought the last bag. Price is a little higher than Jamison last was but not much.

[pinto beans]

Hey Mr. Cliff,

The company will sell direct, here is the order form location:

http://qual-cart.com/quality_cartridge_form.htm

Think the price is pretty much the same as what Graf had. $55.97 per 20 and it is listed in stock on products page.

Hope this helps!

P.B.

[pinto beans]

Greetings All,

As promised a little update on measurements taken on the Quality Cartridge brass. Now this is about as UN-Scientific as you can get!  For sake of argument, let us call it Farm Grade measurments (seeing as I am an old hill billy farmer). 

I took 3 cases at random and measured their length, rim diameter and rim thickness before sizing and triming.  I compared these to drawings sourced from an online posting that shows it came from custom cartridges for factory specs.  Here goes with what I found:

          OAL          Rim Dia          Rim Thickness
Avg       1.894      .603             .067
Factory   1.885     .629             .062

Now the avg of the 3 cases needs to include the note that all 3 were either identical or extremely close so overall the cases were consistent.  The avg measurements were close to the factory specs I found online with one excepting, the rim diameter.  This was evident when I primed the cases.  The old Lyman press uses the down stroke to seat a primer and the rims tended to stick slightly in the shell holder as the rim was pressed into the opening.  Now it wasn't much as a slight press down with the thumb and they slid out with no problem and all primed well with primer seating below level slightly.  The process used to prep was first neck size, then neck expansion die, then trim to length in Lyman universal trimmer.  Haven't tried them in the rifle to see how this smaller diameter rim does, will have to finish loading up for development of the load as am not sure of internal volume so didn't want to just dump standard loads used in the other brand cases in.   As soon as I try a loaded round will report how it feeds and ejects.  Will post up the load development as it happens too.

King Medallion I gave the pictures a try again, these suck too!!  Posted a few here just to show what is going on.  New phone in the works so we will see if technology helps but my bet is the loose nut at the key pad that is causing the poor quality pictures!!

Hope this ain't boring, just hoping to pass along information as it comes along.  Thanks for reading and letting me join in!!

Keep Ya Powder Dry!!

[greyhawk]

Hey PB
These last pictures a lot better - think you wuz toooooo close last time and phones brain couldnt focus!

I took some farm grade (is therte any other sort?) measurements of my converted 348 winchester cases

OAL 1.960 (I set that to the maxium for my rifles chamber - havent done a cast - I flared the neck slightly and chamber the case - trim a bit, rinse and repeat till it chambers neat without turning the neck over)

Rim Diameter is spot on .600 (uberti ejects them fine)

Your rounds look like the case body is shorter (more like originals I have seen) - my cases are neat .600 neck length measured ourtside from the crease of the shoulder to end of case

I dont size anything at all for reloading - this brass is a tad thick, chamber is pretty neat, I load 460cast unsized, almost no neck expansion at all - I do a touch of a flare on the case mouth - fill em back up and put a tiny bit of taper crimp on - have not shot a smokeless load yet (cant be bothered really the black is working good - if I was going hunting and need to change my load, I think I would drop from FFto Fg black and put a small duplex under it - 6 grains 4227 - would expect the velocity and pressure to remain close to same )     

[pinto beans]

Greetings All,

It is known to those acquainted with me that I move at the speed of thick molasses in winter.  With that in mind, I got around today to loading the new brass from Quality Cartridge.  Figured to start a little below the standard load used in both Rock Mountain and Jamison cases just to be sure no surprises with the use of PuffLon filler and new brass.  Nothing strange at the loading bench (unless you count me!!  ) and in short order the 20 rounds were loaded and labeled for testing across the chronograph.  Here is where the fun started.  Reported previously of the concern the rims were a little on the small side in diameter.  I decided to test the feeding of the new cartridges in the rifle, and the fun began.  Tested 5 or 6 cartridges and at least 2 were not able to extract, the extractor hook just couldn't grab enough to pull them out.  I figured these 2 were just smaller than the bulk of the cartridges.  Setting them aside I took the 3 that had worked with no problems and loaded the magazine again.  Cycling carefully each worked with no problem.  Humm quality control issues or just the way this brand is made?  Tried it again and still cycled good. Figured all was well so tried it more briskly and disaster struck.  Round failed to extract and I didn't catch it before the elevator moved up with next round effectively causing one heck of a jam.  Sat and stewed for a bit, said my Sunday school lesson backwards then headed to the shop.  Side plates off, links out lever out, lifter finger out from elevator with pressure off the springs (a story in itself there, that big ape Uberti has snugging up screws is well fed and strong!) and down the elevator went.  Took range rod and gently pushed the round out of the chamber, unloaded the mag then set to putting the old girl back together. 

Conclusions I have reached, the Quality Cartridge brass does have slightly smaller rims in the diameter.  The Jamison and Rocky Mountain rounds will cycle as fast as you can work the lever with Never a hint of this problem.  Now I enjoy this rifle greatly, and it was due to be opened up and cleaned then lubed so this wasn't a total loss and both it and I managed with only couple of minor 'love marks' (I am getting old and clumsy so a few minor bumps came about).  What will I do with these?  Shoot them single shot and see what comes of things.  When I got the reloading setup going for this rifle years ago, I got a Lyman shell holder specifically for the 45-75.   The RMC brass was to big in the rim for it.  Exchanged it for a RCBS holder that I am using now and all is fine.  I bet these new cases would fit the Lyman shell holder I first had.  Does this mean the original cartridges were smaller or is there some other reason for this difference?  Don't know.  Now I have been blessed in many ways in my life,one big one being my Dad being a wonder at all things mechanical and teaching me these skills helped to work on things including reloading and rifles.  To date the 76 has been as smooth and easy as a rifle as I have ever worked with.  This don't discourage me any, just fuels my curious about the rifles and there cartridges.  If any of you all can shed light on what I came across in this latest adventure, help me to learn more on the 76 rifle and its cartridges.

Thanks again to all here for help in the past and tolerating my mis-adventures and Horrible pictures!!  Will report on what the range test yield if the weather Ever gets nice again!

Keep ya powder dry.

P.B.

[greyhawk]

PB
I went back and re measured - seems like my farm grade measure was a bit on the agricultural side (like rougher,n a plowed paddock)
could not find that rim I said was spot on .600

Soooooo  I got two batches of brass here (no idea which is wot or where - they are allasame winchester headstamp)  those two lots would be at least twenty years different age manufacture - yeah thats a story I tell ya one day - one batch - the newer I think - has rim diameter pretty consistent at .6035 to .604 a few getting out to .606
rim thickness of those near as I can figure is about .062 to.065

other lot - the older I think (wild ass guess which is which) rim diameter runs .607 to .609 and thickness about .067 to .069

I have a  Uberti - delivered new off the boat in 2016 - has ZERO extraction problems with this brass.

One qualifier  - the neck part of my chamber is really, really neat to the load I am shooting - only just chambers - its neat enough that this stops the cases from flopping down in the chamber at the back and I get quite neat brass after it has filled out - the swelling at the back end of the case is pretty much even all around rather than a lump on one side like you see with most rifles .

My loaded rounds all go through a .485 neck swage die and finish outside neck diameter of loaded rounds is .4855. If I dont do that I will have problems chambering some rounds = little bit of a swelling under the crimp, or a teensy bulge at the base of the neck 

I am mostly shooting as cast,  or If I size = .460

The tight neck has been a bit of a headache at times but part of the reason this girl shoots nice I think. I dont neck size my brass at all once its fired - just that swage die to tidy things up.

Blackpowder only - mainly because it works so good I couldnt be bothered messing with a smokeless load   

   

[pinto beans]

Thanks for checking your brass Greyhawk!  Been thinking on this so this morning dug out the dial calipers and checked all 3 brands of brass i have.  The Rock Mountain brass averaged .615 rim diameter, Jamison averaged .6145, and Quality Crtg averaged .603.  That is around .010 less than RMC and Jamison.  I have already checked the rifles extractor, it is as the day I got it with no ware or damage so am still thinking it is the smaller rims.  Now it may well be my rifle and how it was made so it just isn't able to digest the smaller rims.  In the long run it isn't a big deal as the different brands are in their own marked boxes and are never mixed so I will shoot these single shot and see how it goes.  I may reach out the to maker to see if the rims can be ordered to an average of .6145 diameter and if it is get a run made up for my rifle as the brass is very nice otherwise.  Will keep ya all posted as I move at that snails pace of mine!!

One thing for sure, these rifles are a joy to work with and great fun!!

P.B.

[Cimarron]

Well here it is almost a year later.  I just wrote Starline inquiring about .45-75 brass.  Maybe if others wrote them too they would consider making a batch.  Have a .38-55 High Wall to play with as well as a M-1917 Eddystone.  I had to take the M-1917 to get the High Wall.  The Eddystone was made in late November 1918 and has an excellent bore.  Having fun working up 1918 .30-06 ammo.  Gun shoots very well!  Thought I would be shooting the High Wall more but have had a great time shooting the M1917!  I hope Starline considers running up a batch of .45-75 as I would like to gat back to shooting the '76 again. 

[Coal Creek Griff]

Well here it is almost a year later.  I just wrote Starline inquiring about .45-75 brass.  Maybe if others wrote them too they would consider making a batch.

Well, I have written to Starline about this periodically over time and I know that others have too.  I've also asked for a response as to whether it might be in the works for the future (or not), but have never received a reply.  I certainly think that there would be a market for .45-75 Win. brass...

CC Griff

[King Medallion]

I also have Ave wrote to starline requesting a run of 45/75, never got a reply.

[Slamfire]

 Can 45-75's be made from Huntington"s 45 basic brass , as well as 45-110 ,, 45-90,, 45-120"s ??

smoke'm if ya got'm ,, Hootmix.

[Coal Creek Griff]

The base and rim diameter is much different. I made .45-75 brass from .50-90 Sharps cases. I still had to reshape the rims, but the diameter of the case above the rim was correct.

CC Griff

[Cliff Fendley]

I notice Starline is offering 348 winchester now and adding more all the time so hopefully they will pick up the 45-75.

[King Medallion]

Judging by the price of Starline's new .348 brass, If/when they do make 45/75 brass, be prepared to take out a loan to get some. Shees.

[Cliff Fendley]

Judging by the price of Starline's new .348 brass, If/when they do make 45/75 brass, be prepared to take out a loan to get some. Shees.

That Starline 348 is still quite a bit cheaper than Jamison 45-75 was provided they could keep that comparable price they probably wouldn't be out of line.

[King Medallion]

 I thought Jamison brass was over priced, but I needed it.

[Cliff Fendley]

I thought Jamison brass was over priced, but I needed it.

Same here and I'm not sure I think the quality of Starline brass might be better. If they would make some 45-75 in the priceline of their 348 I would buy some for sure. I think that's still a dollar cheaper per piece than Jamison was.

[pinto beans]

If Starline would make 45-75 brass I sure would buy some.  Like others here, I have written them and asked for a run of brass.  No reply, but there is always hope.

[greyhawk]

That Starline 348 is still quite a bit cheaper than Jamison 45-75 was provided they could keep that comparable price they probably wouldn't be out of line.

I am thinking that too - their 50 Alaskan was advertised way cheaper just a while back - my problem is I know 348 works without losses - have had less success reducing neck sizes of brass over the years - always seem to loose a few doing that . Wonder will Winchester ever run 348 again or is their ammo operation kaput?

[Cliff Fendley]

The positive thing is they are making more and more oddball casings. I would think they would sell about as many 45-75 as some of the other casings they are offering.

I sent them another email last night but as before and others said I'm not holding my breath hearing a response from them.