.45-75 Winchester brass

[larryo1]

Hey--DT:
Yes, that is exactly the way that I did my brass.  In fact, .348 cases were the first brass that I got when I first got my '76.  At that time, I didn't know much about how to get head-stamped brass.  Later I picked up a bunch.  As far as Bertram goes, the cost was what made me shy away from it.  i never had any bad luck with it other than that.  Case life? Well I only got 20 rounds of the stuff and only lost one but later found it in the Barnyard all smunched up and useless.  If I had it to do over again, I wold stick to .348 brass.  I have both Winchester and Remington and have have no problems at all with either brand but that is just me I suppose.  Hope this helps y'all.

[larryo1]

More goodies:

I, over time, got a gob of all that I needed--and want. As far as that .348 brass goes, I just keep loading and shooting wither it be smokeless or BP, it seems to like 'em both.  After the initial ritual of fire-forming, annealing and whatnot, everything seems to act normal(?) As I stated earlier, I got all I need but if I needed more, I sure would stick to .348 brass in either specie.  I don't think that I would hold my breath for Starline or Jamison or any of the rest of them to produce anymore if ever and as long as there is .348 cases available or at least until they dry up that would be the way that I would go.

[dusty texian]

A question for Larry O  , did you trim the 348 cases before fire forming ? If yes how much ? Thanks ,,,DT

[larryo1]

D.T.
No. I ran them through my RCBS Trim and file die afterwards. If my memory serves me right ( and at my age now that may not be so good) I think that there could have been less than a quarter inch but can't remember.  You gotta realize all that work was done more than 5 and more like 10 years ago.  Sorry!  Just fire form them and run them through that Trim die.

[dusty texian]

Thank you Larry O   ,  I have 20 empty once fired 348 wch brass on hand . I will try your method soon . I want about 2 or 3 hundred brass for my EHB 1876 45-75 . Have been ringing the steel gongs with it and that's is fun = eats up some ammo . ,,,,DT

[larryo1]

D.T.
Glad what little I had to offer could help.  I quite getting cases after about 4-500 rounds and still have some stashed that I haven't done anything with but one of these days I will have to dip in and use them.  Anyhow it is fun. One of my more interesting moments was when I found out that I could get 76 grains of 1½F into a Jamison case.  That turned out to be one of my better moments with regards to a loud BOOM and a heavy recoil but it did shoot clean and was quite accurate.  I got that info off an original box of factory loads.  Damn those Mounties must have been tuff buggers.  It also makes one wonder about the integrity of those folks at those factories what did the original loadings but guess that was a long ago anyway.  Have fun.

[dusty texian]

Larry O  , my hunting loads for my 28" oct. bbl .45-75 1876  are loaded with 77 gr. by weight  Swiss 2ff and an original 350 gr. bullet .It is a stout load and yes I agree the Mounties or anyone firing that load in a SRC 1876 is in for a Blast /Boom /Recoil . Thank You for your input on the fire Forming the 348 brass . Had the EHB 1876 out for some target shooting yesterday afternoon using my target load around 65-66 gr. Swiiss 2ff and a 350 gr. bullet that load along with the Extra Weight of this Bull Barrel gun makes it a very pleasant shooter . Here is the old girl all cleaned up after the shoot .,,,DT

[larryo1]

DT:

I forgot to mention that it was Bullseye that I had  in under that Cream-of-Wheat when I test fired.  I guess it probably don't mean much as lng as the brass is fire-formed.  Also, I peaked at some of my loads and in the fire-formed .348 cases, I was able to put in 76 grains of Swiss 1½BP with a 0.020" card over it and as you say, the recoil is quite rewarding and I always think that it could be interesting to tangle with one of those ol Mounties at the firing range huh!

[Oregon Bill]

Dang me that's a handsome '76, Dusty!   

[dusty texian]

DT:

I forgot to mention that it was Bullseye that I had  in under that Cream-of-Wheat when I test fired.  I guess it probably don't mean much as lng as the brass is fire-formed.  Also, I peaked at some of my loads and in the fire-formed .348 cases, I was able to put in 76 grains of Swiss 1½BP with a 0.020" card over it and as you say, the recoil is quite rewarding and I always think that it could be interesting to tangle with one of those ol Mounties at the firing range huh!

Thanks Larry O , I have some old 348 cases but will wait until I get some new brass in for fireforming . Will try some Unique powder about 6 or 7 gr. under the corn meal should do it . If the wind slows down a bit will burn some powder . ,,,DT

[dusty texian]

Dang me that's a handsome '76, Dusty!   

Thanks Bill , I don't like carrying it around but on the bags its a sweetheart for sure .,,,DT

[larryo1]

DT:
The only other thing that might be worth mentioning is that there is suppose to be a "Coke Bottle" shape at the head of the case when you use .348 brass.  Well, I did have that situation with the first firing but now with all my .348 cases that are now ..45-75 cases that shape has gone away at least in mine.  Don't know if this means anything other than the fact that this situation has not caused me any problems. Also I may mention that I have not lost any cases since the forming was done and after alot of shottings.  Needless to say, that .348 brass is some pretty tough stuff.

[greyhawk]

DT:
The only other thing that might be worth mentioning is that there is suppose to be a "Coke Bottle" shape at the head of the case when you use .348 brass.  Well, I did have that situation with the first firing but now with all my .348 cases that are now ..45-75 cases that shape has gone away at least in mine.  Don't know if this means anything other than the fact that this situation has not caused me any problems. Also I may mention that I have not lost any cases since the forming was done and after alot of shottings.  Needless to say, that .348 brass is some pretty tough stuff.

Larryo
I was one "complained" about the 348 cases forming out of shape - all my 348 brass is winchester and it measures consistently .543 at the soild head - my fully formed cases measure .554 at the bulge (where wall joins soild head) so there is a quite noticeable swell there - (BTW when we google 348W case dimension the spec dimension for 348 at base is .553 -- the 50/110 parent case says .551) So if the parent brass had been made fuill sized ?? ------ I dont know what other brands measure (Starline - Hornady) ----winchester was the only choice when I bought mine. It is tough brass and now I have it formed out fully the thick necks have turned out to be a bonus - my rifle is very neat up the front end - cast boolits are just a neat slide fit in unsized case necks . I dont neck size but have made a little outside swage die and I run all rounds through that after loading - just in case I made a little bump on the neck in crimping ---like you have not lost any cases since I started shooting - some up to 6 or 7 loads and just looking nice.

   

[larryo1]

Greyhawk:
I don't know why my cases lost that "Bulge" but they did.  Maybe I had my tongue in my cheek just so--anyway, Any bulge that there is there sure don't hurt the brass any.  My cases are both Remington and Winchester and in both cases, they work just fine for me.  I think--just maybe-- that the Remington cases are a wee bit tougher than the Winchester ones but that is my own opinion.  Anyway, they are a darn good substitute for the real thing if and when those are available agin.  Thanks for your comments.

[greyhawk]

DT:

I forgot to mention that it was Bullseye that I had  in under that Cream-of-Wheat when I test fired.  I guess it probably don't mean much as lng as the brass is fire-formed.  Also, I peaked at some of my loads and in the fire-formed .348 cases, I was able to put in 76 grains of Swiss 1½BP with a 0.020" card over it and as you say, the recoil is quite rewarding and I always think that it could be interesting to tangle with one of those ol Mounties at the firing range huh!

Larry O
I formed my last batch of brass from 348 - just neck expanded it up - shortened it (too much, some of em shrunk a little bit after firing) and went shooting with blackpowder loads - took proly three cycles to get them blown out - but the rifle shot well enough to be fun with the fireform loads - when I switched over to heavy boollits (DT posted pics of Winchester 450grain x 90 grain pointy boolit loads) That load fetched them out pretty much on the first round - a little more the second go but not much.

466 grain CBE (shortened Lyman Postell) / 72 grains of my Cartidge no2 = got 1244FPS ---I had got up to 76 grains as an attention getter but accurracy a bit better with the 72g

When you do the cornmeal / bullseye thing do you fill the case right up or what ? I have never done that - a bit leery of fast powders in big cases I guess - I have stacks of red dot and WST powder here so could try it

Had a good day today! I went scratching around in the hidey hole where brass lives here and found 100 new 348 W cases! yippee! That gives me some over 200 for the 45/75 and plenty for the 348 as well - dont need to buy any more after all!

   

[larryo1]

Greyhawk:

Yep. I fill them up to the brim and then press in that wax plug.  I only use about a small dab of Bullseye as am a bit skittish on that fast stuff too but it works.  I looked inmy records and found that  used either 16 grains of Bullseye or 20 gains of Titegroup and the cornmeal and wax bit.  Also, one of the things that I found, in my nosing in my records was that 22 grains of 2400 worked really well in my rifle.  Not that would be good for a "Purist" who uses only BP but I did find that load is rather accurate.  I found that load listed in one of Ken Waters' books for the 45-60 and 45-75.  When I first got my rifle, I really did a lot of browsing and trying different loads.  I did find that 72 grains of Swiss 1½ was just as accurate as the 76 grain load and doesn't kick as hard so-- for whatever that is worth.  Have fun.

[greyhawk]

Greyhawk:

Yep. I fill them up to the brim and then press in that wax plug.  I only use about a small dab of Bullseye as am a bit skittish on that fast stuff too but it works.  I looked inmy records and found that  used either 16 grains of Bullseye or 20 gains of Titegroup and the cornmeal and wax bit.  Also, one of the things that I found, in my nosing in my records was that 22 grains of 2400 worked really well in my rifle.  Not that would be good for a "Purist" who uses only BP but I did find that load is rather accurate.  I found that load listed in one of Ken Waters' books for the 45-60 and 45-75.  When I first got my rifle, I really did a lot of browsing and trying different loads.  I did find that 72 grains of Swiss 1½ was just as accurate as the 76 grain load and doesn't kick as hard so-- for whatever that is worth.  Have fun.

I have only shot blackpowder - not so much that I am a purist - just lazy - have had good results with black (I make it, so its really cheap) I enjoy handling the 76 so cleanup is not a chore, and despite initial intentions to work up smokeless loads (even cut a bunch of cases short so I could crimp to suit the groove of a LEE 340 grain boolit) - I guess I got to a point of why bother?  Have had a lot of fun with that big rifle the last couple years - well worth the price!

[larryo1]

GH:

I am sort of like you in that respect-shooting BP and stuff.  I make my own bullet alloy but not the Black Power.  I use Swiss 1½ BP.  I  found a formula for  bullet alloy on the back of a box of original factory ammo awhile back-  actually it was a long time back!  Anyway, they recommended an alloy of 16:1.  So, I made some and it works great in my rifle.  I did try a 20:1 alloy but been having best luck with the 16:1 alloy.  Besides I can get my lead and tin pretty easy--so far.  Anyway, that is about  all that is about all I can pass on for now. I use a custom  mold  by Hoch that is patterned after an original WCF mold.  It casts pretty near a 350 grain bullet.

[pinto beans]

Greetings All,

Some news of sorts on brass.  I have always been a scrounger.  Finding things for repairs and such was and is a role I did in my professional life and on the farm.  Now that I am retired (or supposed to be!) been putting this character flaw to use in the search for 45-75 brass.  There is a company out there called Quality Cartridge  http://www.qual-cart.com/ .  Somewhere I had seen they produce some and maybe all of the 76 cartridge brass.  Well sure enough they do and Graf and Sons is listed as a distributor.  Went to Grafs site and they had a bag of 20 Quality Cartridge 45-75 in stock so I ordered it, figuring what the heck.  Been looking at the product and it presents as well made brass.  Haven't had time to do detailed measurements but will share when I do.  Attached is a very poor photo of the Jamesion, Rocky Mountain and Quality Cartridge next to each other.  Price wise it is more in line with Rocky Mountain Cartridge (who list the business for sale on their site but are still accepting orders so still available there I am guessing).  Quality Cartridge does accept direct orders on their web site but they state if out of a cartridge that they will produce it when enough back order is there to do so.  Not sure the level of back order required but that is what I read on the site.  Few images attached, but I ain't good at taking pictures so not the best.  I will report back as I start working up loads in the new brass, but it does give at least a source for now.

Keep ya powder dry!

[King Medallion]

Your right, your pic's suck!