Potential 44-40 problem after bullet crimp?

[Milano]

Hello all I have a concern over some reloads of mine.  The recipe for my 44-40s has always been a good one but I did 2 things differently and would like some experienced opinions IF I have done something wrong.   My recipe is Winchester brass, WLP, 0.429 JHC (Midway bulk bullets), 8.6 gr of Unique, and 1.5860 COAL.  I did two things differently this time and I want t now if it is a concern.

Because the bullets sometimes get pushed into the brass I used a C-H Cannelure Tool to put a crimp under the bullet.  It seems pretty light to me but I hesitate to do it any deeper.

I also chronographed them.  The Uberti 4.75" SAA is at an Avg 657 f/s and about 54 f/s extremes.  The Uberti 19" Carbine is at an Avg of 1,128 f/s with 130 f/s extremes.    I looked through all my data books and it seems that the pistol velocity is pretty darn low.  The rifle is a bit lower than what I would want but it is accurate enough.

Do you see any issues with the velocities?  Would the crimp increase the pressure significantly to make the velocities?  Am I worrying over nothing? 

[Milano]

I am trying to upload 2 pictures for you all to take a look at but I can't.  It keeps giving me a ... 500 internal server error.    I will try to upload them after I get my kids fed

[Coffinmaker]

Your reported velocities aren't anything to be concerned with.  Just kind of jam and fudge.  Your loading smokeless and not getting a full case which id not of any real concern ....... EXCEPT:

IF your getting "Turtles" (bullet back inna case) your not crimping or not crimping correctly or not crimping enough.  Other than looking interesting, weakening the case (eventually), the cannelure under the bullet isn't really going to do much.  It may or may not prevent Turtles (I doubt it).  You don't state whether your chosen Jacketed Hollow Cavity bullets have any kind of crimp groove or cannelure to crimp into.

A good solid crimp with your combination is needed for a more complete burn.  With a more complete burn, your velocity may well go up but not alarmingly.  My opine is your worried over nothing.  However, It's also my opine your using the wrong bullet for 44-40.

[Milano]

Thank you for your quick reply.  I use a Redding profile crimp die as a separate stage and the bullets that i use do have a place to crimp to.  Maybe I have it adjusted incorrectly but I have crimped it so hard that it has "bubbled" the case and shortened the COAL.  I adjusted it slightly above that and re calibrate it every time i set down to reload.  I usually load several hundred and it takes me a few years to use them up.

How much pressure should they take before they turtle.  The rifle is an Uberti 73 and is constantly loaded and in my truck here on my ranch.  Could it be that I should just under load it?  I dunno any advise would be helpful.  With these older 44-40s, 45-70s etc.  What would you consider an acceptable ES?  With my 6.5 Lapua and 308s I'm not too happy with anything over about 20 ES. 

[Cliff Fendley]

Lee Factory Crimp die is the way to go.

I do use a redding roll crimp die with some of my loads but only on black powder loads where the bullet can't get pushed back in the case anyway.

[Bibbyman]

You may want to check the expander plug in your die set. It may be opening the case up a little too much and not getting enough tension on the bullet.

[Slamfire]

 Mr. Bibbyman  , thank you for your "helpful " post . I was having the same problem w/ my 44/40 loads ,, went and cked. my RCBS die's ,, expander miked @ .430 ,, my 92 Rossi miked  @ 427 ,, reworked expander plug ,!!!! now holds bullets ( Lyman 427098 ) tight ,, this cast bullet does not have a crimping grove ,, but I still roll crimp right at the band ( lightly ) and it don't push back into the case. So thank you for the helpful ( over looked ) suggestion .


smoke'm if y'a got'm ,, Hootmix .

[Roscoe]

What data did you find for jacketed in 44-40? The jacket will produce resistance and lower velocities than the same load with lead, so any extrapolation from lead loads may not produce what you expected. Loading 44-40 is tricky, but with the bullet size matching the throats and expander matching the bullet, all that's left is finding a trim length that allows full and free chambering.