newbie question

[buxtonguy]

looking at a Ciimarron 1851 RM conversion in .38 special 7 1/2 inch, to go with my 1873 clone.  Is the RM too long for a cross draw type set up?

Anything a novice should know about the 1851 RMs?

Thanks

[Coffinmaker]

Hi there Newbie  

Get paper and pencil.  You asked for opinions and yer gonna get some.  Betcha.

First, I don't think anything is "too long" for a Cross Draw.  If your going for style, Longer barrel guns are really cool.

Second:  You are probably going to find your new 1851 RM Conversion is a Kit.  Nicely assembled very pretty kit, but a kit.  The Barrel to Arbor fit will be wrong and must be corrected before you do anything else.  RM Conversions will need a good bit of Rubbin-n-Buffin to be really ...... fun to play with.

PS:  The RM 38 Conversion from Cimarron is available in several barrel length, Which, when the Arbor fit is corrected from the arbor end are interchangeable in about 30 seconds.  A tutorial for the fix is on "The Open Range."

[buxtonguy]

cool. love learning about this stuff, thanks!

[Abilene]

And here's another opinion.  I have thousands of rounds through each of four '51 Richards-Masons, two 7.5" and two 5.5", and more recently I changed one of the 7.5" to 4 3/4" to shoot gunfighter style with a 5.5" '61 conversion.  I shot them for a lot of years with nothing other than a spring kit.  Last year I started dropping an appropriate sized washer down the arbor hole in the barrel to tighten up the fit.  Nothing else.  YMMV of course, and some are smoother than others out of the box.

It is in fact easier to draw the longer barrel from a crossdraw than a strongside at "authentic" belt level. 

[Coffinmaker]

HOLD    THE    PHONE!!  Thank You Abilene!!  I forgot.  I forget a lot.  Anyway.  A Lustrum or two ago, when correcting the Barrel to Arbor fit on several Open Tops and my own 1851 RM Conversions, I noticed the amount of error was actually fairly consistent.  Of you peer down the hole in the barrel lug, you will notice the hole is first drilled, then a flat bottoming bit is run down to made a ledge for the Arbor to register on.  It leaves a concave "dimple" in the bottom of the hole.

I then dropped a 10mm stainless split washer down the hole and put everything back together.  IT WORKED.  Then The Wedge is fit and presto, it's done.  One must just remember the washer is in there and not leave it out when you clean the gun.  You can also swap to other barrels using the same split washer.  So I started posting this quick and CHEAP fix.  Some thought I was Knutz because it wasn't a more permanent fix.  The main point was anyone can do it and not send a gun out for expensive work.  Kitchen table fix.  HOWEVER .... This fix has to be done BEFORE anything else is done.  As Abilene attests, it works a treat.

PS;  I ever mention I hate Auto Correct??

PSS:  Much as they annoy me (they really annoy me) the Uberti open tops are the most versatile CAS guns on the market.  Right next to Pietta Cap Guns.  Correctly set up they are absolutely FUN!!  I run 3 sets of cylinders/barrels on my Open Tops and three length of barrel on my RM '51s.  FUN!!  Absolutely!!

PSSS:  END MILL.  The second bit sent down the hole is an End Mill.  I Told ya I forget stuff.

[Abilene]

On my most recent conversion, a Type II bought about a year ago, the 10mm washer was too thick, so I dropped a single very thin flat washer in and it worked okay but actually worked best with no washer.  Could that mean Uberti is getting better?  Dunno.  The gun that I changed to a 4 3/4" barrel needed two of those very flat washers as a 10mm split was not quite thick enough.  And the other three were fine with the 10mm split washer.  And yes, I forget they are in there occasionally when I take the barrel off and drop them.  So I have extra washers on the bench and a little baggie of them in my guncart 

[Fox Creek Kid]

...And yes, I forget they are in there occasionally when I take the barrel off and drop them.  So I have extra washers on the bench and a little baggie of them in my guncart 

Better at your age to drop washers than your nuts.         

[Lefty Dude]

On my most recent conversion, a Type II bought about a year ago, the 10mm washer was too thick, so I dropped a single very thin flat washer in and it worked okay but actually worked best with no washer.  Could that mean Uberti is getting better?  Dunno.  The gun that I changed to a 4 3/4" barrel needed two of those very flat washers as a 10mm split was not quite thick enough.  And the other three were fine with the 10mm split washer.  And yes, I forget they are in there occasionally when I take the barrel off and drop them.  So I have extra washers on the bench and a little baggie of them in my guncart 

Missed ya at WR last Week. The Range was not quite the same.

[Abilene]

FCK, I would have to agree with you there 

Lefty, I did miss going to WR and seeing you and other folks I only see once a year.  Although Joe says it was cold and windy.   But they had a full crew and Cody and Michael (Shootin' Steele) are good guys.  They did ask me to go to Shot Show which I declined due to my increasing caretaker duties here.  But I'm really glad I didn't go because they had a new booth this year and it was way more of a drudge before and after which was bad enough in the past. 

[buxtonguy]

would carrying a 1873 and an 1851 RM be considered weird?

[Abilene]

would carrying a 1873 and an 1851 RM be considered weird?

You mean for CAS or for feeling authentic?  Either question, answer is no. 

In olden times, not all the cowboys went out and bought SAA's in 1873.  Conversions and even cap'n'ball were far more prevalent in the old west than Peacemakers.  Now, using a Henry or '66 could put you into a little earlier of a time period.

[Tornado]

would carrying a 1873 and an 1851 RM be considered weird?

If you are going for the win, then matched guns are better.  You don't have to know if this gun feels a little different than that gun or if they have a slightly different point of aim.
Saying that, having mismatched guns would probably be way more common back in the day.  I don't own any guns that match, with me having limited financial opportunity, why would I want two identical guns.

If your going for style, Longer barrel guns are really cool.

[Major 2]

would carrying a 1873 and an 1851 RM be considered weird?

Considered ?   certainly not.....

I use a 73 & a Type II conversion ....besides that the Type II is 44 Colt & the 73 SAA are 45 Colt
with the Type II in the cross draw.

I'm not Considered Weird...
I'm full blown, card carrying....WEIRD  

[Abilene]

oops, I was thinking 1873 rifle when you said 1873 and conversion, but then remembered you said 1873 Clone in the first post (don't let Coffinmaker catch you using the word 'clone' haha).  Around CAS '73 tends to mean rifle.  But my answer would be the same. 

I started with a 44 Spcl Colt SAA and a Vaquero, but soon replaced the Vaquero with my first '51 conversion and shot that pair for quite a while.  After a lot of years of acquiring more guns, I tend to shoot more matched guns, sometimes different barrel lengths, but whatever you want is fine.  I knew a guy some time back who shot a Schofield with an Opentop.  He was not fast, but he had plenty of fun.

[buxtonguy]

thanks for the input gentlemen

[Crow Choker]

buxtonguy---You can basically carry/shoot any combo ya want as long as the firearms are SASS/NCOWS legal. Some shooters post and whine about not 'being authentic', but neither are the Fruit of the Loom or Hanes underwear they have on or the $400.00 eyeglasses they have perched on their nose. Neither rifle or revolver need be the same caliber or exactly the same time period, ie.  revolver that was introduced in the late 1850's and rifle that came from the 60's on up. Some shooters like to have combo's coming from the same time slot and both shooting the same caliber. I carry and shoot all kinds of combo's, depending on my mood of the day. The same rifle and revolver combo of revolver cartridges such as 44/40 made sense back in the day, but at a CAS type shoot when yer loading your firearms at a table and go to the line and shoot all that you've loaded (except say double barrel shotgun) you don't have to worry about going to the line reloading 38 Spec in your revolvers and 44 Colt in a rifle and keeping the rounds separate. Some like to shoot different calibers, some like to keep everything one caliber. I don't have a problem with a mix as I've shot all I have long enough I'm use to each one--all feel close to the same to me.

I've shot and carried short and long barrel revolvers for a long time crossdraw and have had no problem with either barrel length. As Abilene posted, a longer barrel is easier to draw crossdraw than from strongside. What ever ya feel comfortable with and are used to. Reference the arbor fix that's been posted, with my Colt style percussion and conversion style revolvers, I like using various thicknesses of brass washers vs a split washer. I bought a half dozen brass washers of various thicknesses at a hardware store and use whatever combination or of single ones that are needed to 'true' things up. Tried split washers but didn't care for them-not saying they don't work. I grease the washers when assembling the gun so they don't disappear as easily during disassembly. When taking the gun apart, the washers are either stuck on the end of the arbor or down in the arbor hole. The brass washers can be stoned down also if a thinner one is needed. Several years ago I bought around a dozen of the Dillion buttons that Pettifogger recommends for doing his posted Rx for arbor fix, but haven't got at that procedure yet--maybe this summer.

[Navy Six]

If you are not worried about speed, long barrels look good in a crossdraw. It can also depend on the holster. For several years at Cowboy shoots I carried a 12" Colt Buntline in a right hand crossdraw. The holster was considered a "bucket" and barely covered the frame. It was opened toe, of course. I was told the front sight would catch on the holster while drawing but it didn't. Got the idea from a Charles Bronson movie(I forget the name but it also starred Robert Mitchum) about Pancho Villa. Also Lee Van Cleef in " For A Few Dollars More" looked good with that long barreled crossdraw. Yeah, I know, not very authentic. But people got a kick out of it and it was fun. I finally gave it up because I didn't personally care for the crossdraw carry at a Match and having to do "the twist".

[buxtonguy]

thanks again, can't wait for my bonus check, going to my first shoot next sat as a spectator

[Coffinmaker]

If you pull your Cross Draw holster around front right next to your belt buckle, and are careful, NO TWIST is needed.

[buxtonguy]

yeee-ha!  won an auction, picked her up yesterday.  1851 cimarron RM 5.5 inch barrel, i like it!!