Armslist Defarb/Fake Rem Carbine

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings My Dear Netizens -

Whilst bumbling about the interwebs, I stumbled acrossss this gem:

1858 Rifle, New Model. 44 Ball/Cap "Make Offer"

and sent them the following:
snip------------------------------------------------------
Sirs -
regarding your your armlist ad for Remington and Sons 1858 Rifle, New Model. 44 Ball/Cap \
found here

http://www.armslist.com/posts/7870459/springfield-missouri-rifles-for-sale--remington-and-sons-1858--rifle--new-model---44-ball-cap--make-offer-

I humbly submit that you do not have an original antique, but a "defarb" , and possibly a deliberate fake.
According to Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms fewer than 1,000 of these rare rifles were produced in the period 1866-1879 in two calibers.

in your ad, we can see the following problems:
1) no original Remington C&B rifle/carbines were made with 18" barrels , only reproductions have 18" barrels.
2) the rear sight is incorrect.
3) the writing on the barrel is incorrect :
     a) it should be 3 lines, not 2 lines
     b) originals are better machine stamped or rolled, all in line ; yours is "wobbly" as if done by hand one letter at a time
     c) stamping font is incorrect

- it should look like these
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/17982/17332177_5.jpg?v=8D086B8710B9990
http://www.mgantiques.co.uk/photos/45012/IMG_45012_8.JPG

references:
https://www.remingtonsociety.org/a-study-of-remington-revolving-rifles/

hope this helps
endsnip---------------------------------------------------------------------------

We will see what happens...

yhs
prof marvel

[River City John]

Spot on.

RCJ

[Major 2]

carefully worded....suggests piece of OLD WEST,  but does not come out and say original ...Clearly not

Your points  +  ...Wood is not black walnut ....  loading lever is to short

$ 4,500       maybe $350  maybe !  tops 

[Slamfire]

Maybe the cylinder don't turn....it say's " single shot"..or did I misunderstand what I read



smoke'm if y'a got'm,,,,Hootmix.

[Jake C]

Cool looking carbine, but I agree, definitely not an original.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Maybe the cylinder don't turn....it say's " single shot"..or did I misunderstand what I read

The lister may not know the difference between 'single shot' and 'single action'.

[Galloway]

I'd have a ball chasing small game in the desert with one of those. I wish uberti would do a run with longer barrels just one year then go back to the 18''

[Coffinmaker]

Well ........ Humpf.  I normally don't involve me in a lot of stuff Remington.  I don't like Remington(s).  Remingtons bark the heck out of my middle finger which hurts like the dickens.  HOWEVER:


FAUX!!!  FAQUE!!!! FAKE!!!  PRETEND!!!  IMMITATION!!!   FROG(fraud)!!!  FRAUD!!! (I said that??)   I am somewhat dubious of the authenticity of the offering.


I fear the seller needs partake of Perfesser Marvelous's Patented Potent Snake Oil (Dr. Feelgood).   It would appear the seller has  perhaps partaking of a lesser quality remedy.  For Shame!!

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Great catch, Prof!

A few years back I called out a guy on Gunbroker that was selling a "rare WW II USGI Universal M1 carbine."  It was a late 60s model with the hollow stamped steel slide, that he had fudged it into a modified GI stock.  He blabbered on about it being rare, and made for the home guard or some drivel.  I forget how much it was, but it was crazy high. 

I contacted he and read him the riot act, liberally using fraud and BATFE im my comments.  The listings was withdrawn. Even if he didn't fake it himself, he was a dealer, so he knew better.

[The Pathfinder]

"Even if he didn't fake it himself, he was a dealer, so he knew better."


Unfortunately, knowing better and doing the right thing is becoming a rare commodity. I ran on a guy at one of the local gunshows who tried to sell me an 'original' 1888 Remington. Other than the cross-pin on the frame and the 357 caliber of the barrel, I might have believed him. Rookies.

[Baltimore Ed]

I confronted a seller at a local gunshow years ago who had a nice group of Colt Woodsmans that looked brand spanking new through his showcase glass. I didn't handle them. But when I asked him about the boxes that imo would accompany pretty guns like these there were none!! I then made a comment about the beautiful reblues and he got very upset and indignant, how dare I accuse him of selling reblued as nib (without the box). I walked away. Unfired looking handguns were either cased or at the very least kept in their original boxes. They don't stay pristine otherwise. And even pristine vintage guns in cardboard boxes will show wear at the muzzle and high spots. Nowdays you can buy an exact copy of a Colt box on eBay to put your refinished, restamped Colt into. I would sooner buy a gun with honest wear over a nib one. Gotta do you homework. Scammers scam.

[Professor Marvel]

well, the rotten old barstich relisted it on 1/29, identical listing.
I marked it "scam" a bunch of times.

yhs
prf vl

[Abilene]

I confronted a seller at a local gunshow years ago who had a nice group of Colt Woodsmans that looked brand spanking new through his showcase glass. I didn't handle them. But when I asked him about the boxes that imo would accompany pretty guns like these there were none!! I then made a comment about the beautiful reblues and he got very upset and indignant, how dare I accuse him of selling reblued as nib (without the box). I walked away. Unfired looking handguns were either cased or at the very least kept in their original boxes. They don't stay pristine otherwise. And even pristine vintage guns in cardboard boxes will show wear at the muzzle and high spots. Nowdays you can buy an exact copy of a Colt box on eBay to put your refinished, restamped Colt into. I would sooner buy a gun with honest wear over a nib one. Gotta do you homework. Scammers scam.

I bought my second .44 Spcl Colt SAA (made in '78) at a gunshow in 2000.  It may have been unfired and was pristine.  No box.  So it does happen.