Milling 1873 brass carrier

Started by FuriousFritz, October 20, 2017, 06:44:29 AM

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FuriousFritz

Howdy,

when i shoot with Triple 7 and my 1873 rifle chambered in .357 and i clean the rifle the next day, the carrier stucks and i have to disassemble all parts.
My thoughts are, if the brass carrier is milled the way like the attached picture, that there will be less fouling at the carrier respectively it could be easily brushed off by a bit of oil/cleaner.

Has anybody done that to a brass carrier and got some experiences?

Coffinmaker

Hello Fritz.

Yes.  I have set up "lots" of Uberti rifles with the carrier milled to reduce weight and drag.  It will have almost no effect on the amount fouling you get in the carrier mortice.  The fouling is caused by an oversize chamber and brass that doesn't expand enough to seal the chamber against "Blow-By."

Your best bet for cleaning the carrier is water with some vinegar added.  I don't use Trip 7 at all.  In the past it has caused rust.  With APP which is my Sub of choice, I drop the carrier in the sink with the brass.  Just water and a goodly amount of vinegar.

Lefty Dude

You could always switch to a dash cartridge, and your problem would be solved.
Remember; Winchester never chambered the 73 for a straight walled cartridge.

Coffinmaker


Aw Poop.  I should have added ..... "Framing" out the carrier block does reduce the reciprocating weight of the carrier and reduces the drag in the mortice.  Unless your interested in confirming your place in the top 10% of competitors, not really worth it.  Looks real trick though.

In my personal opinion, Triple 7 isn't your best choice for a propellant.  If real BP is a problem to acquire, I'd suggest APP.  Easier to clean up and less prone to corrosion. 

Since your having a problem with Blow-By, it sounds like you may wish to consider Annealing your cases (Sorry Lefty, Annealed cases seal right up).  A softer upper case will expand (obturate) and seal the chamber.

Lefty Dude

That is a PITA, Pard, A 32-20 is the answer. Many top Frontiersman shooters here in the West Shoot Dash Cartridges.
Someday it might catch on in the East.

Abilene

Just an observation - I am of the opinion that the milled carrier in the picture in the first post is not SASS legal.  The side has been milled all the way to the top which will show with the action closed and therefore be an illegal external modification.
Storm #21   NCOWS L-208   SASS 27489

Abilenes CAS Pages  * * * Abilene Cowboy Shooter Youtube

Pettifogger

Original Winchesters in .32-20 had carriers like that in the photo.

Abilene

Storm #21   NCOWS L-208   SASS 27489

Abilenes CAS Pages  * * * Abilene Cowboy Shooter Youtube

Coffinmaker


LEFTY!!  DUDE!!  :o

I must agree.  Since I discovered "Zen and Cartridge Case Annealing" I have spent many rewarding hours, alone in my garage, roasting the end of my cartridges.  So satisfying.  So ..... SKUL NUMBING BORING!!  Gadzooks what an absolute DRAG.  Necessitous however, under certain circumstances like .... Mine.

Dash calibers are an elegant solution.  Unless you already own a full stable (Eastern word for Barn) of 38/357.  In which case it becomes a really elegant EXPENSIVE solution.  Annealing (Thank you OD#3) Startup only runs about 20 - 25 bucks.  So my bottom line for a generous 38/357 chamber is to anneal.  Nanny Nanny Poo Poo Thibbit   8)

Noz

Have you ever tried doing the annealing by dipping the cases in a hot lead pot?

Coffinmaker

Hey Noz .....  :D

Never even entered my feeble mind.  Some lustrum ago, after a run-in with lead poisoning, my physician expressed I should never stand over a hot lead pot again.  I haven't.  Won't.  So it's just me and a hot torch. :-\

Forgot.  I haven't shot 38s in a long long time.  I shoot 45s.  For my guns that digest full size 45 Colt cases, I simply start out with 44-40 brass and fire form it to 45.  Works Trix!!

Lefty Dude

Quote from: Coffinmaker on October 22, 2017, 04:39:27 PM
Hey Noz .....  :D

Never even entered my feeble mind.  Some lustrum ago, after a run-in with lead poisoning, my physician expressed I should never stand over a hot lead pot again.  I haven't.  Won't.  So it's just me and a hot torch. :-\

Forgot.  I haven't shot 38s in a long long time.  I shoot 45s.  For my guns that digest full size 45 Colt cases, I simply start out with 44-40 brass and fire form it to 45.  Works Trix!!

AH, HA, See you are a Dash-Cartridge sort of fella after all !!!!!

pony express

So he's actually a 45-40 shooter!

I tried annealing in a lead pot before. You know, as hard of a time as I have trying to solder things, and the solder just runs off, there's ONE thing I can really get melted lead to stick to- cartridge cases!

I use a propane torch and a variable speed drill, with a bit out of my vast selection of tools(AKA junk) that fits close enough in the primer pocket for it to sit on and spin, but loose enough that when I tip it over the water bucket, the case easily falls of.

Reverend P. Babcock Chase

Howdy Folks,

I'll admit my ignorance. I should know, but what is a dash cartridge.

Reverend Chase

Pettifogger

Quote from: Reverend P. Babcock Chase on October 22, 2017, 08:20:19 PM
Howdy Folks,

I'll admit my ignorance. I should know, but what is a dash cartridge.

Reverend Chase

.32-20
.38-40
.44-40

These were original old black powder cartridges.  The first number is the caliber then a "dash" and the second number was the original BP powder charge in grains.

Reverend P. Babcock Chase

Thanx Pettifogger,

I should have figured that out on my own. Now, to further confuse the issue, it seems to me that the dashes used in cartridge designations are sometimes use slashes (/). Is this a 45 Colt vs. 45 Long Colt type deal?

Reverend Chase

Coffinmaker

PBC,

Not Pettifogger here.  Didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express (that I admit to), but just for edification and extended knowledge (same thing) there is no such thing as a 45 Long Colt.  Miss-nomer.  I don't even think anyone knows how it got started.  Or Why.  Or Where.  Or When.  Sorta like the term "Clone" (fingernails on a Chalk Board).  Those exsteamed scribes whom refer to 45 "Long Colt" only demonstrate a certain level of ignorance.

Lefty Dude

Professor Marvel, please step in here and correct the error of his ways. There was actually a 45 Long  and a  45 Short. Early on in the cartridge's history.

Reverend P. Babcock Chase

Howdy all,

If you mine posts from years ago, you'll see that I'm well aware that there is no such thing as .45 Long Colt. We had a lively discussion about that years ago. The explanations for why Long Colt was correct were hilarious. Some argued that it was to differentiat between the Schofield round and the 45 Colt. Some even mentioned the 45 ACP being short. I think that the gummint did refer to a short and long 45, but not with the "Colt" added.

I only used that as an example of how cartridge naming sometimes gets bastardized. I would like to know whether the "dash" cartridges are also sometimes "slash" cartridges. examples: 44-40 or 44/40, 45-70 or 45/70. Anyone have a handle on this?

Reverend Chase

greyhawk

Quote from: pony express on October 22, 2017, 06:54:52 PM
So he's actually a 45-40 shooter!

I tried annealing in a lead pot before. You know, as hard of a time as I have trying to solder things, and the solder just runs off, there's ONE thing I can really get melted lead to stick to- cartridge cases!


Ohh I get that !!! Cant solder to save me self - but I would take all bets on bullet lead sticking to my cases - too slow anyways.

I use a propane torch and a variable speed drill, with a bit out of my vast selection of tools(AKA junk) that fits close enough in the primer pocket for it to sit on and spin, but loose enough that when I tip it over the water bucket, the case easily falls of.

Stand a bunch of em up in a big flat tray of water (H2O) - have at it with the torch and as they get to the right temp tip em over in the water  - use a long screwdriver or a piece of brass rod in a wood handle to tip em - this is way much quicker than any method where ya have to do each one by itself - yeah - ya will burn an odd case - but the time saved doin it will make up for the few casualties

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