.357 Magnum in a SAA or Clone, NOT RUGER

[Virginia Gentleman]

How does the SAA or a Clone hold up when shooting full house .357 Magnum loads?  Is it comfortable to shoot?  Can the 130 year plus design hold up to the magnums with the modern steel?  Or are these .357 sometimes and .38 special most of the time like the S&W model 19?

[Galloway]

I'm sure you'll be fine. The problem with all hand ejectors shaking loose is due to the leverage put on the crane during recoil. SA's have a large solid pin straight through the cylinder. And the 357 cylinder is by design one of the strongest since less was removed from it in the first place.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Galloway:

That is so true, the extra "meat" left in the cylinder and barrel along with the solid base pin should make it strong enough over the long haul.  Also, Uberti who manufactures these guns for the various importers, uses modern alloys in their forged parts which should make the gun strong enough to take it.  How does the SAA grip style work with this cartridge in handling recoil? 

[Galloway]

Not quite sure my 357's all happen to be Rugers, But I handload some rounds that are close to the original  1935 loading and recoil is no problem with them.

[Virginia Gentleman]

What type of .357 SAA type guns besides Rugers do you have?

[Iowa Wiley Stafford]

Kinda shocked at your comment on the S&W Model 19.  How heavy of loads are you shooting in it?  I have had mine for
20 years and all I ever shoot are .357's in it and have never had a problem with it at all.  Is there something I don't know about the s&w frame I should?

[Virginia Gentleman]

The S&W K frame is not the most robust for the .357 Magnum which originally came out on the N frame.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I would be careful with Taurus and Uberti. They are nice, but, don't go crazy.

The reality is, the best built single action revolvers for nasty/wicked/wrist snapping .357mag loads are Rugers.

Next up, MAYBE Colts...

I like my Uberti's too much to try and destroy them with 45colt+P loads...
(I bought them to shoot cowboy, not "dirty harry" style...)

But, if that is what you want, go for it.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I would be careful with Taurus and Uberti. They are nice, but, don't go crazy.

The reality is, the best built single action revolvers for nasty/wicked/wrist snapping .357mag loads are Rugers.

Next up, MAYBE Colts...

I like my Uberti's too much to try and destroy them with 45colt+P loads...
(I bought them to shoot cowboy, not "dirty harry" style...)

But, if that is what you want, go for it.

I have no intentions of shooting any hot .45 Colt +P rounds through any of my guns, S&W, US Fire Arms or Cimarron and never did.  I am curious why the Colt would hold up best in a .357 Magnum (Rugers not withstanding, everyone knows they are the strongest SAA look alike), when US Fire Arms uses a slightly larger cylinder and Cimarron/Uberti are made with steel that is either the same or very similar in alloy and fabrication as the Colt? There is a perception that Colt is just better because it is a Colt, when infact the Colt SAA uses MIM and cast parts like some of the imports, to the same grade of steel.  4130 or 4140 steel is universally the same as it must meet the same hardness and stress tests to be certified as such.  To my original question, I guess the SAA platform is fine to use with the .357 magnum because it has less steel taken from the cylinder and the locking mechanism in the action can take the beating.  I know it isn't wise to firewall any loads in any gun, but for the SAAMI spec factory loads, will it last as long as one chambered in .45 Colt?

[Virginia Gentleman]

Are the leaf springs and the multi-part grip frame the weakest point on the SAA design when it comes to shooting .357 Magnum loads?

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Hammer springs are prone to breakage on the SAA, I have found that by polishing the spring lengthwise, you can help give the spring a longer life, any lines or surface cracks that run across the spring no matter how small or fine should be polished out, because those lines will become cracks over time, and that is where the spring will break, polishing them out LENGTHWISE ONLY will help give your hammer spring a much longer life, and it also smooths out the action big time. Just go easy, you don't want to remove too much metal, or heat the spring up too much in the process, doing this by hand is the best way, use different grits of paper until it is polished up and the cracks /small lines are removed, use a magnifying glass to be sure. There are some after market hammer springs that are in pretty good shape as they are, and would only need minimal polishing or not at all.

          Regards

        tEN wOLVES   

[Jamie]

I've often wondered the same thing relative to the strength/weakness issues of the Italian imports.  I've read more than once or twice (probably hundreds of times) about the superiority of the American products and the inferiority of the clones.  Most of the advisories are accompanied with the proviso that they are fine unless you load them hot, or shoot them a great deal with hotter loads.  I have always assumed that the imports are far superior in metallurgy to the originals, but what makes them worse than American products, if, in fact they use the same quality steel as the modern products from America?  One area I've heard addressed is the springs, which, again, from reading, not from actual experience, are described alternatively as either harder or softer, more prone to breakage, etc.  This makes sense, depending on quality control, and is a major consideration in as much as replacements for American made products are, hopefully, somewhat more available.  On the other hand, does the gun itself, frame, cylinder and barrel suffer from poorer tempering/heat treating in the imports?  This question is NOT rhetorical, or intended to suggest that there aren't differences, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever done that testing necessary to back up the concerns.  One thing for sure, in my cap and ball revolvers (Uberti, Pedersoli and ASM), I should be so lucky as to have the time to wear them out! 
Jamie

[Virginia Gentleman]

So, I guess if one replaces the springs with Wolff or other high quality aftermarket springs, the imports should be at least as good if not better than US guns, at least the earlier ones.  I have not seen anything like a comparative "Rockwell" hardness test of the major components to judge it definitively.

[Mikejc1003]

I have a Colt SAA in 357 that was made in the mid 1970's.  I've owned it two decades and have run a lot of full house 357's through it.  Except for holster wear on the metal, it still is in great shape.

[Old Doc]

To each his own but I don't know why anyone wants to fire .357's in a SAA. Furthermore, I always wondered why there are more .357 Magum Colt SAA's around, especially in third generation,than there are .38 specials. As the .357 Magnum was not introduced until 1934, I have never considered it a traditional caliber in a Colt SAA. IMHO.

[Virginia Gentleman]

One thing the Italian and German clones have over their American counterparts is their nation's governments proof test each gun for strength.  Something we don't mandate and leave to the mfg's word.

[Fox Creek Kid]

The K Frame S&W guns are fine as long as you don't use the hot factory 125 gr. loads too much. Why? Look at the bottom of the forcing cone & you will see a small flat that is a consequence of the smaller frame. That is the Achilles heel of the K frame. Also, S&W's go out of time easier with full house loads. The Colt is not really a good design for full house .357 loads but not to worry as no one buys it for that. They buy a Ruger or a Freedom Arms.

FWIW, Colt doesn't use MIM parts in the SAA. That's just so much BS spread by the USFA "Kool Aid" drinkers.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Colt first chambered the SAA for 357 Magnum way back in 1935, shortly after S&W developed the cartridge. That's a long time now that they have been doing it. Colt had been factory warrantying the SAA for Smokeless ever since 1900, but when they started chambering it for the 357 Mag they began using a fine grade higher tensile strength ordnance gun quality steel than they had been using previously.

If you examine a SAA cylinder, Colt or otherwise, the diameter is pretty much the same as a N frame S&W. So is the barrel diameter. By boring 357 sized holes in the cylinder and barrel of a SAA you pretty well duplicate the situation of the early N frame Smiths like the original 357 Magnum, later known as the Model 27. The New Vaquero also pretty much duplicates the dimensions of a Colt and pretty much has the same amount of steel surrounding the chambers, despite the fact that it is not as massive as the 'original model' Vaquero. The 'om' Vaquero was way overbuilt for the 357 Mag in this cowboy's humble opinion, and way heavier than it needed to be for that cartridge.

My point is, there is plenty of steel in a SAA cylinder, either a real Colt, or an Uberti clone or a New Vaquero, to take the pressure of the 357 Magnum cartridge as a steady diet. The US no longer has exclusive use of high quality steel, the Italians use steel just as good, despite the occasional complaint about surface hardening.

The nature of the springs really should not affect how the gun takes the punishment of the 357 Mag cartridge. The cylinder is the pressure vessel, and the frame takes the battering of recoil. The springs just go along for the ride.

As for how comfortable in recoil, I don't own a Colt chambered for 357 Mag, but I do have a couple of New Vaqueros chambered for the Cartridge. The grip shape is very similar. I bought them for Mrs Johnson to shoot in CAS. When I first bought them I took them down to the range to see how they shot. I was bench shooting them with light cowboy 38s. I was not holding on real tight, they hardly recoiled at all. Then just for fun I filled one up with 357 Mags. I aimed at my target and squeezed the trigger. But I forgot I was not shooting 38s anymore. I had been holding it with two hands with a light grip. When it fired, the gun tore itself out of my left hand and dragged my right hand across in front of my face and almost jumped to the floor, almost whacking me in the forehead at the same time. I looked around to make sure nobody had noticed my dumb move. Then I grabbed the gun a little bit tighter and emptied the rest of the cylinder. No problem. Nice, sharp, full bodied recoil, just like any other 357 Mag. Didn't jump out of my hand again and didn't hurt me. I finished off about a half box of 357 Mags just to be sure.

My point is, any SAA sized revolver will stand up to 357 Mags just fine. 44 Mag is a different story because of the increased chamber diameter, but 357 is fine. The New Vaquero is one tough little gun and can take a real pounding. The Colt and Ubertis will be fine too.

[Curley Cole]

I have an old Jager EMF Dakota in 357 that has had everything you could think of shot thru it. (got it about 1980 ) and still is a good shooter.

In recent years I havenot gotten any "factory" loads of any kind...but I think it could handle it.

good shootin
curley

[Duke York]

The Colt Peacemaker in .357 and the USFA Single Action's in .357 are 100% safe to use with SAAMI loads.
I have fired hundreds of full power magnums (factory Federal 125 grain JHP and Winchester 158 grain SWC and handloads) through my guns.
Mostly though, I shoot .38 Special handloads in my superb USFA .357's.

Duke York
SASS 15978
USFA CSS 199