AUTHENTICITY and GENUINE WARDROBE IN WESTERN FILMS

[levisurfer]

Hey!
Love the old photos showing real authentic and genuine cowboys of the Wild West period.
I am intrigued by the use of collared shirts by so many cowboys.  I have been told by numerous people "in the know" that collards did not come in on shirts till late that century.  These images tend to suffuse otherwise.
I am a keen serious amateur photographer and filmmaker from the UK and love to film westerns in Arizona.  WE tend to aim for the 1880s as that gives us options to use older Civil War weapons as well as the 1873 Colt and Winchester.  Plus it gives us more latitude when it comes to gearing the cowboys up in genuine wardrobe, boots and weapons.

Can anyone give us some honest and authoritative advice on the wardrobe of that period.  Our next film will be set in southern AZ in or around 1880s and we will have a Doctor, Sheriff, lawmen and 5 outlaws.  The outlaws will be mainly 20s - 30s with one older outlaw in his 50s. 
What about facial hair?  I see moustaches were popular.  But what about beards, full beards, short beards, stubble, 5 o'clock shadows?
Any advice would be great appreciated and any more photographs to help us "style our cowboys would be great. 
My email address is paulv@paulv.co.uk
And if you would like to see the trailer to my last 60 minute western just let me know.
Thanks
Paul

[wildman1]

Should be some historically knowledgeable folks on CasCity.
wM1

[G Bulldog Grainisland III]

I've also thougth that collars early on were attachable, not fixed.

Anyhow, would love to see your trailer!

-Bulldog

[Delmonico]

The term collarless shows a lack of knowledge anyway, if someone uses that term for a banded collar shirt it shows their lack of knowledge. 

If you don't understand that statement it's time to do some real research.

[Coffinmaker]

Well ...... Picky Picky Picky   

Caffeine level a little low eh.

Coffinmaker

[Delmonico]

No people that really know what they are talking about know the proper terms.

A banded collar is a collar.   There are several types of collars besides a fold down type.  Knowledge is good to have and teaching it to people sometimes pisses them off because they really don't want to learn.

[Coffinmaker]

I can agree whole heartedly Del.  Sometimes though, it's all in how you phrase the lesson??

Coffinmaker (Whom absolutely cannot abide the term "CLONE."   

[Delmonico]

I can agree whole heartedly Del.  Sometimes though, it's all in how you phrase the lesson??

Coffinmaker (Whom absolutely cannot abide the term "CLONE."   

It's like I told my step-daughter last summer, "I won't waste my time discussing politics with someone who failed civics class in HS."

And I always buy cloned potatoes.

[Coffinmaker]

Whoa!!!  Great information!!  I've often wondered why ALL the Russets at the Super Market were all the SAME SIZE 

Coffinmaker

[Delmonico]

Whoa!!!  Great information!!  I've often wondered why ALL the Russets at the Super Market were all the SAME SIZE 

Coffinmaker

Ever grown potatoes?  You cut a piece and plant it, that's cloning.

[Books OToole]

The term collarless shows a lack of knowledge anyway, if someone uses that term for a banded collar shirt it shows their lack of knowledge. 

If you don't understand that statement it's time to do some real research.

But "they" are always going to refer to Smith & Wesson Safety Hammerless revolvers as lemon-squeezers and the 26th President as Teddy. (He loathed the nick name.)

Books

[Delmonico]

Yep and it's a waste of time working with people who don't want to learn the proper terms.   


I just don't bother any more.

[River City John]

Yep and it's a waste of time working with people who don't want to learn the proper terms.   


I just don't bother any more.

Except with me, of course. You must take pity on my dim wits and patiently explain everything. IN DETAIL.

RCJ

[Delmonico]

Except with me, of course. You must take pity on my dim wits and patiently explain everything. IN DETAIL.

RCJ

But you listen and want to learn the proper terms.   

[Ben Beam]

Hey!
Love the old photos showing real authentic and genuine cowboys of the Wild West period.
I am intrigued by the use of collared shirts by so many cowboys.  I have been told by numerous people "in the know" that collards did not come in on shirts till late that century.  These images tend to suffuse otherwise.
I am a keen serious amateur photographer and filmmaker from the UK and love to film westerns in Arizona.  WE tend to aim for the 1880s as that gives us options to use older Civil War weapons as well as the 1873 Colt and Winchester.  Plus it gives us more latitude when it comes to gearing the cowboys up in genuine wardrobe, boots and weapons.

Can anyone give us some honest and authoritative advice on the wardrobe of that period.  Our next film will be set in southern AZ in or around 1880s and we will have a Doctor, Sheriff, lawmen and 5 outlaws.  The outlaws will be mainly 20s - 30s with one older outlaw in his 50s. 
What about facial hair?  I see moustaches were popular.  But what about beards, full beards, short beards, stubble, 5 o'clock shadows?
Any advice would be great appreciated and any more photographs to help us "style our cowboys would be great. 
My email address is paulv@paulv.co.uk
And if you would like to see the trailer to my last 60 minute western just let me know.
Thanks
Paul

Paul,

I think it's great that you're taking the time and making the effort to research this. I know from experience that it can be difficult to find good sources on a lot of this information, and that many of the sources (even primary ones) seem to disagree. It's hard to trust a lot of online sites that promise to sell "authentic" costumes and then carry things like "brothel inspector" badges.

Since you're researching a specific time period, things get quite a bit easier since we have lots of photography from the era. Cabinet cards from that period (around 1880) had some very specific characteristics: they usually had square corners, and were mounted on heavy card stock. The faces and backs of the cards were often different colors, and the faces were often dark colors as opposed to white. The photographer's name on the back was often large and very ornate, as opposed to the earlier ones which were usually rather small and plain (although use of gold and full back designs tended to be found later).

Using these identifiers, do a google image search for "cabinet card" and you'll find hundreds of photos that will show clothing, facial hair, and other accoutrements.

No matter what you do, you'll end up with someone telling you you're wrong. If it was all figured out, we wouldn't need historians.

Good luck, and let us know how your project goes!

[boilerplatejackson]

A good book on period clothing depicting clothing worn by Cowboys on the Northern Plains is titled "I see by your Outfit" by  Tom Lindmier and Steve Mount is worth borrowing and reading. So is the book "Thoughts on Mens Shirts in America 1750-1900 " by William L. Brown. and get a hold of a replica Montgomery Ward Catalog from the era is also a good source of information on what was worn. Band collar, round fall collar, pointed fall collar, Most dress shirts had button on collars. Work shirts had sewn on collars.

[Delmonico]

Another good source is the Solomon Butcher Collection.  https://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award98/nbhihtml/pshome.html

Covers all walks of life, there are many things in there that goes against the grain of what a lot of people think.   

On the subject of collars, Ned Dunlap foreman of the Watson Ranch has an interesting one in this 1901 picture.  Now in all fairness it was at the time of an Old Settlers parade, but I'm thinking I doubt that was the only shirt like that around. 

[Delmonico]

Another one, but smaller and not made from from the negatives is the LOC's John Grabill collection.   

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/grabill/

I was lucky enough to know his Great Nephew and attended a couple lectures on "Uncle John" before Don passed away. 

[Delmonico]

Good luck with your searches, also pictures with out context such as some idea of date and location are really not that useful.  Could have been taken in a New York studio for what that is worth. 

[River City John]

Another one, but smaller and not made from from the negatives is the LOC's John Grabill collection.   

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/grabill/

I was lucky enough to know his Great Nephew and attended a couple lectures on "Uncle John" before Don passed away. 

Interesting in that he's carrying a cap 'n' ball in 1901.
RCJ