Bob Munden tuned Colt SAA ?

llanerosolitario · June 17, 2017, 11:19:04 AM

I have a problem with focusing, tired eyes, and these shooting glasses helped me to aim both sights without effort and maybe could be of help.

Maybe you are doing everything rigth....and the groups are a bit open because of a slow hammer fall....it is a problem with slick actions with mild springs, a quick way to spoil a good revolver.

For good groups top bullseye shooters use just the opposite...stiff springs with good trigger jobs. Harder to cock, but much more accurate and reliable.

Pitchy · June 17, 2017, 11:38:59 AM

Thanks for your reply, before I do anything I`m going to get someone with good eyes to shoot it.
I remember years ago it shot pretty good, back when I was good looking and sharp.

yahoody · June 17, 2017, 12:37:02 PM

I felt kinda bad about this thread. Guy comes in and asks about his Munden gun that he is rightfully proud of. Then some very experienced folk pile on with the thoughts on Mundens's work and Bob in general. Bob, like all of us will eventually be, was judged and saint or sinner else where. But guys here that have been burning 1000s of rounds a year, for years through SAAs might have some wisdom to pass on the merits or lack of in a action job.

Quote"Maybe you are doing everything right....and the groups are a bit open because of a slow hammer fall....it is a problem with slick actions with mild springs, a quick way to spoil a good revolver.

For good groups top bullseye shooters use just the opposite...stiff springs with good trigger jobs. Harder to cock, but much more accurate and reliable."

SAA has a notoriously slow and hard hammer fall. They are always tough guns to shoot well and get good groups. But Llan has hit the general issue I think that won't help with a group on paper.

And Pitchy is spot on getting someone of known ability (with a SAA) to shoot the gun before doing anything else. I mentioned this prior but don't think it was appreciated or more likely just misunderstood. "Those that actually did shoot a lot generally had Bob's work replaced." The results you are seeing from a revolver that was likely easier to shoot a decade or so ago might well be your eyes and skill set today..or it might well be the action work making your life harder.

I burn through some ammo and like the SAA because it is a demanding handgun to shoot well. But any decent SAA, in any caliber, should be very capable of really good groups under 25 yards with a skilled shooter behind them.

This was a quick group on a cold and windy day. Nothing special from this gun. It is capable of much more. A lot of folks don't recognize what a mediocre shooter can do with an exceptional gun.

The flip side to that, 25 years ago I sent Bob a .44 Special that I shot the best group I have ever shot with a SAA. The gun came back and didn't shoot to that standard again until it was rebuilt. No disrespect to Bob..he heard it from me personally bitd, just fact.

Pitchy · June 17, 2017, 12:55:27 PM

Yahoody that`s a nice looking shooter ya got there and I appreciate your reply , I don`t think it has anything to do with Mundens tune up.
As you can see the groups on the left with the 1860 aren't much better, I`ve been shootin for many years and its my eye sight that`s failing me. I can`t shoot a rifle near as good any more either and have given up on many of my guns .
Its all in fun and that`s what counts in the end of the day.
Cheers everyone.

yahoody · June 17, 2017, 01:04:00 PM

Your groups aren't that bad Pitchy. I sure don't want ya shooting at Me

Pitchy · June 17, 2017, 01:13:24 PM

Thanks pard, I should of tried a few shots with my reading glasses on I can see the sights perfect but the target is then blurry.
If I put a bright colored dot on for a target that may help, we`ll give it a try tomorrow if it isn`t raining which it`s about to do right now.
IMO a 44 spl should put them in a two inch group easy at 15 yards.

yahoody · June 17, 2017, 01:44:48 PM

A pair of 44s and 15yds groups.

Top gun shot the left group after I cut the front sight down. Bottom gun shot the right group without doing a thing to it past new flat springs and a trigger job. Hence the name "perfect 44". We're close in age. Can't see near or far very good but thankfully I can still focus on a front sight with some clarity

Pitchy · June 17, 2017, 02:10:55 PM

Say now those are fine looking pistols and mighty fine shootin for sure and for certain, thanks for sharing.
I`ve been a welder for many years and I think that took a toll on my vision.
Guess I`ll have to learn point shootin.

llanerosolitario · June 17, 2017, 02:24:36 PM

I don't think that those groups are bad neither. A bit open, but they have a nice pattern....which tells us a couple of things, or maybe more:
The shooter has skills and trigger control and they can be improved.... by comparison...

If we pay attention to the patched holes, they were made by un unknown shooter with a 9mm pistol, and I suspect it was an expensive pistol, maybe an STI or a top price CZ or a 952 SW pistol....I know that because I watched as an spectator the match, before being allowed to use the facilities with my Centaure, and all the guys attending the match were veteran shooters, above 50 years old.

This guy does not control neither sights, nor trigger.

A decent shooter with a factory standard gun can do a lot more than a mediocre shooter with a top gun.

Pitchy · June 17, 2017, 02:44:06 PM

Thanks Sir, we`ll see what happens tomorrow, could be it just doesn`t like the load also.

45 Dragoon · June 17, 2017, 06:50:46 PM

Back on the tuning side of the O.P.s inquiry, maybe he can give details on what was done to his revolver. From what I've seen and read, many times the bolt stop (lip in front of the bolt head) is ground off, requiring the user to manually push the bolt down to reset it when cycling with the cylinder out. I can understand Bob doing this to his own rigs but wouldn't do it to a customers. One thing that I do use that I learned from Bob, is a step on the bolt head. This step ensures that the leading edge/side of the bolt will be in the locking notch faster than it would normally be and helps guarantee throw-by ain't gonna happen!! (I didn't get a "yay" or "nay" from Jim so we didn't discuss it anymore). This, along with a few other things done to the bolt alone, is one of many things I've picked up from many tuners (admittedly mostly from Jim) to put in my service.
The point is, a good tuning done correctly shouldn't necessarily detract from a revolver but taking away "normal" operating functions may (ie. The removal of the bolt stop or setting a revolver up to be a fanner . . .).

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Pitchy · June 17, 2017, 07:11:24 PM

Quote from: 45 Dragoon on June 17, 2017, 06:50:46 PM
Back on the tuning side of the O.P.s inquiry, maybe he can give details on what was done to his revolver. From what I've seen and read, many times the bolt stop (lip in front of the bolt head) is ground off, requiring the user to manually push the bolt down to reset it when cycling with the cylinder out. I can understand Bob doing this to his own rigs but wouldn't do it to a customers. One thing that I do use that I learned from Bob, is a step on the bolt head. This step ensures that the leading edge/side of the bolt will be in the locking notch faster than it would normally be and helps guarantee throw-by ain't gonna happen!! (I didn't get a "yay" or "nay" from Jim so we didn't discuss it anymore). This, along with a few other things done to the bolt alone, is one of many things I've picked up from many tuners (admittedly mostly from Jim) to put in my service.
The point is, a good tuning done correctly shouldn't necessarily detract from a revolver but taking away "normal" operating functions may (ie. The removal of the bolt stop or setting a revolver up to be a fanner . . .).

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Are ya asking me Mike, if so all I had done to mine was the basic tune-up new wire trigger hand or bolt spring which ever ya call it on a Colt and the main spring thinned.
I think I`ll get out of this thread as it got way off topic, appreciate the interest and replies but I`m not interested in the bad views of MR. Munden who isn`t here to defend himself.
No one in particular I`m referring too so don`t take offence anyone, I`ll start a new thread about the accuracy of my Colt after I shoot it again.

Abilene · June 17, 2017, 07:57:23 PM

Pitchy, I have a twin to yours. My 1st Colt was a 5 1/2" .44 Spcl bought at a gunshow in '99, then exactly one year later at that show bought the 4 3/4" .44 Spcl to go with it. The first one had timing problems and I got an action job from Bob Taylor as I was new to these guns back then. The 4 3/4" looked new (no box), and all I've done to it is a spring kit. The 5 1/2" is from early 1978 with a very late SA suffix serial number, and the 4 3/4" is from late '78 with an early SA prefix. Just shot BP in them at the Tejas Caballeros today. The first gun has about 4300 rounds through it now and the second has 2800 through it. I only shoot them a couple times a year now, gotta get the others into the rotation

Both came with Eagle grips but I don't have any pictures of that as I put on the Ajax pearlite years ago. And I don't even have a pic of the two together, but here is the one like yours.

45 Dragoon · June 17, 2017, 08:06:22 PM

Pitchy,
No offense meant, on the contrary, I told you what I know of his tunings and what I "borrowed " from him. The bolt stop thing is insurance of "full engagement " of the lock notch . . . without fail.
I was just wondering what else may be going on in there.

Mike
www goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Coffinmaker · June 17, 2017, 08:48:38 PM

Pitchy,

You really should wear your reading glasses. The optimum "sight Picture" is to have your sights in focus and the target blurry. Your really can't have sharp focus on your sights and on the target at the same time. Wear your readers and your groups will improve (I hope).

Coffinmaker

llanerosolitario · June 18, 2017, 03:48:45 AM

Yes he can, he can perfectly have both sights and target perfectly sharp and on the same focal plane without effort.

That's why I recommend Knobloch shooting glasses...they are expensive, but there are cheaper brands.

Rifle shooters also use them....for that exact reason, it allows focusing both sights and target with no effort for the eye.

Pitchy · June 18, 2017, 06:31:25 AM

Thanks fellars, Mike no offence here it was just getting of the topic about the negative views of Munden which wasn`t what I was asking.
Yep he must of done something to keep things together while fanning his guns .
Another question is HH still around, I emailed him about doing a conversion on my 1860 but haven`t heard back but it is the weekend.
I see he hasn`t posted here for a while either, hope he is alright and if I missed something please forgive me.

llanerosolitario nice pistols and thanks for showing them, mine had a timing issue also, Bob fixed that also and I think our guns are about the same years.

I`ll shoot it today and wear my glasses and see what happens, it still may not group tight as I said it may not like the load they're pretty light at 6.5 gr. Unique.

Pitchy · June 18, 2017, 10:44:26 AM

Well fellars better but the Colt won`t be one of my guns for shootin paper, it`s my eyes that's the problem.

First shots are with glasses on the right but as ya see it better without on the left without glasses, with the glasses the dot is so blury I can`t center on it.

Last target is without glasses but the target dot is bigger so grouple got a little better.

The fun of getting old I recon,

Abilene · June 18, 2017, 12:07:05 PM

That's a nice shootin' range ya got there, Pitchy! Have you tried shooting with your hands on the rest instead of the barrel on the rest?

Pitchy · June 18, 2017, 12:13:11 PM

Quote from: Abilene on June 18, 2017, 12:07:05 PM
That's a nice shootin' range ya got there, Pitchy! Have you tried shooting with your hands on the rest instead of the barrel on the rest?

Thanks Abilene, I can shoot 175 yards from that back stop, we have 40 acres here.

Yep I did that on the last picture and groups improved a little, its my eys pards just gotta live with it for now.
I don`t shoot that much any more anyway, no one around here shoots much or interested.
A touch of white paint on the back of the front sight may help then shoot without glasses, rain every other cloud that goes over so will shoot more this week.
Also the barrel wasn`t resting on the sand bag just the frame.