Taylor's & Co. Win 1866 "Musket" .44-40 on Special Order List...

[Coffinmaker]

Balto E,

Lighter Lever Side Springs and lighter Main Spring is into "domino effect."  If you have some light hammer strikes, FIRST look at your firing pin and firing pin return spring. 
If the business end of your firing pin looks like the leading edge of a basket ball, it will need re-profiled to a pointier profile.
The OEM Firing Pin return spring is too heavy/too long.  Shorten it to 11/16ths or replace it with a reduced return spring.
The Firing Pin Extension rod should slide smoothly in and out of the bore in the receiver.  If it doesn't...polish it.  It (extension) must also slide smoothly in and out of the Breach Block.  Often a burr at the end of the Extension.  Often the inside of the Breach Block is a little rough.  Polish em.

[Baltimore Ed]

While I was watching tv last night I was levering my 66 to help break it in and wound up replacing the original mainspring but I found that the firing pin is very stiff to move when the lever is up where the hammer would naturally hit it but when the lever is lowered slightly loosens up. If  you thumb cock the hammer after firing and then slowly lower the lever the extension will pop out 1/8 inch. Do I have something in a bind? Is this correct? I also found a weirdness where the sear and hammer engage. If I hold the trigger and hammer as they slowly engage can feel an extra 'edge' right before it engages the full cock notch. I don't fell anything when I run at normal speed or when I pull the trigger. When I get it apart I'll post some photos.
Updats---Put 30 more rds through it today after reshaping the trigger sear angle, the angles were cut weird making it feel like two different engagements on the full cock notch. Only 2 my fault misses but no light hits with the original mainspring installed. Now I need to crank out some more.44-40s. I'm going to like this rifle. I need to get my pact timer repaired so I can do a head to head shootout comparison between the 66 and my Marlin and see which one is faster.

[Coffinmaker]

Ed,

YES!!  You have a bit of a problem in your ignition system.  The coiler is obviously out of phase with the positractor.!!  Maybe.  FIRST.  BEFORE you attack anything else, reduce the firing pin return spring and check/reprofile the nose of the Firing Pin.  Reassemble and and test.  SECOND.  With the lever tight against the lower tang, the Firing Pin and Extension should slide in and out smoothly and easily.  The binding you have found is contributing to your fail to fire.  BEFORE lots of excitement and AFTER you have fix'd the Firing Pin and Spring, chamber a FIRED RESIZED or VIRGIN case and test the Firing Pin/Extension Rod for freedom of movement.  You should be able to push the Extension Rod into it's bore easily with light pressure and it should come right back out EASILY.

If you get some light binding with NO CASE chambered, but everything frees up and runs smooth and light WITH a case chambered .... no real problem unless the bolt drop is really excessive.  You should not get a lot of vertical movement of the bolt on the end of the Extension Rod.

Now ...... Take the Hammer out of the gun.  Inspect the sides of the hammer for drag marks.  If you have drag marks on the hammer, you have burrs in the wrist.  Stone those (Burrs) lightly and if you have a VERY FLAT surface, polish the sides of the Hammer.

If you are running wire Lever Side Springs and a reduced Main Spring, there is no "breaking in" to do.  At most, pull the carrier block out and on a VERY FLAT surface with 1000 or 2000 grit Wet/Dry polish all four sides of the Carrier Block.  Lightly oil everything.  Should run lightly enough you'll need a lever wrap to keep from hurting your fingers cycling the lever. 

[Baltimore Ed]

Coffinmaker, the left cases are from today's 30 with the original mainspring while the right cases are from the other day's 50 with the reduced power spring.?? Look alike to me.
I resized a case and chambered it as requested--- no bindind on the firing pin!!! The extension moves easily with finger pressure. The hammer rebounds. Amazing. Pardon me lack of unnerstannin this mystery but wth? Is my rifle posessed with some old Italian spirit?
I assume that the chambered case is supporting the firing pin and extension so nothing is binding. But that doesn't explain my earlier light hits? I looked at the hammer when I had it out earlier and didn't notice any real marks. More shooting required.

[Coffinmaker]

OK Ed,
We are in hot pursuit!!  Next step is to check Head Space.  I use an automotive type blade feeler gage that will fit between the mortice wall and the extractor.  Measuring between the Case Head and the Breach Face of the Breach Block (Bolt).  Optimum Head Space is .004 +/- .001   Some guns will run with far more Head Space, clear out to .010 but .010 is on the ragged edge.  Should also check for firing pin protrusion.  When pressed into the Bolt with the spring installed, the firing pin should protrude .045 - .050 past the Bolt face.

Then we consider the possibility of Primers not fully seated in the pocket.  And Then .......

The wrong Primers.  What brand primers are you using??  When a toggle link rifle is built to run light and fast, you may well have to consider it a "Federal Primer" only rifle.  Remington and CCI are well too hard for a reduced Main Spring.  Federal and Winchester are the recommended primers and if a really light Main Spring, Federal only.

The indentations on your pictured primers appear to be same same.  That would also indicate to me your Main Spring is sufficient.  The last thing to look at is YOU.  When you had the Fail to Fire, were you running the rifle fast and perhaps got out of time with the rifle??  I have been shooting Brass rifles forever (no lever safety) and still occasionally get a little out of time and eject a live round that has just a tiny little dent in the primer.  Not enough for ignition.  Very annoying.  I shouldn't actually admit to that.  However ............
And I do wonder about your Head Space.

PS:  Forgot.  It has been very very common for Large Bore Uberti toggle rifles to have excess head Space.

[Baltimore Ed]

Coffinmaker, I broke out my feeler gauges and calipers and the bolt is OVER camming slightly not the opposite. I cannot get anything between the chambered brass and the bolt. With an mty chamber, on the rt side of the extractor it measures  .057 while on the left side it is .054, my starline brass measures a .059 - .060 rim thickness. The bolt closes on a chambered round with just the slightest amount of resistance. I had a more severe condition on my NWMP 1876 carbine if you remember the old thread. The 76 was over camming to the point that it wouldn't even chamber certain brands of trimmed .45-70 brass with the correct rim thickness. My shooting buddy removed some metal from the links on only one side which solved the problem. The other side was fine. The golden primers in my .44-40 are winchester but I usually use cci. I'm going to leave the original mainspring in the rifle as it's not much of a felt difference between it and the aftermarket light wt spring. The lt weight spring didn't really fit the rifle as there is a milled recess in the lower tang and the narrow profile caused it to go into the recess which reduced the spring to the point that it lost most of it's power. I had to put some pieces of belt leather in the recess to get it to work at all. This could have been where the light strikes came from. Your interest and imput is mucho appreciated.

[Baltimore Ed]

Just put 50 more through the musket with no issues except a couple of my fault misses. No misfires or feeding problems. I will shoot 50 more this week in preparation of our club's match next Saturday but it looks like Colour Sgt Bourne will use it next week. I would think that the slight amount of over camming is preferential to excessive headspace. Would also think that things will loosen up the more that it's shot.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I've often wondered .....  If one were to have sufficient disposable income ....... to wander around South American gun shops in search of a few of those last production 1866s Winchester made in Central Fire, strictly for export.  Could be kinda fun.  With current garbage import restrictions, re-import could be problematic (antiques??) but finding a shooter or two would be way cool.

Lived in South America for damn near a year and it's not smart for a Gringo to mention "gun" there and that's even if you speak Spanish like me. Collectors pretty much "raped" Latin America in the years after WWII and what is left the families are keeping as heirlooms if allowed. Some no doubt are hidden in countries where ownership is illegal. I had dreams of encountering an Argentine S&W American or a Cuban pre-1866 carbine, but the odds were worse than the lottery. As well, thanks to decades of Westerns and nowadays the Internet these people know the value of these guns.

[Baltimore Ed]

We shot our December match today and then had our clubs Christmas dinner after shooting 5 scenarios. 16 shooters participated in the fun. I went as Color Sgt Bourne and used my .45lc Webley Government Target Model, a .455 Mk IV and my new 66 musket. I only had 2 misses with it on the first scenario where I tried to run the rifle too fast, I slowed down a tad and was clean the rest of the day. Fired 49 rounds out of the rifle which ran great. Just the occasional hitchiness due to my not working the lever all the way. A leather wrap on the lever and something non slip on the brass carbine buttplate would help it alot. Will post photos when the club's photographer sends me some.


Photos!

[gmkmd]

I know this is an old thread, but thought I?d chime in. There was a bit of discussion about a bayonet for the Uberti ?66 musket.  I have a Uberti ?66 musket and a Uberti ?73 musket, both NIB, which were originally bought as dealers samples some years ago. The ?73 came with a bayonet, but the ?66 didn?t. Don?t know why.  Maybe I should see if it fits either gun.

[mtmarfield]

      Greetings, GMKMD!

   Keep Us posted on that! I'd also love to see photos of your '66 and '73 Muskets, and the Bayonet!

                   M.T.Marfield
                     8-22-19