The Krag in the Great War?

[Silver Creek Slim]

What say you?

Slim

[Scattered Thumbs]

Besides Charlie Chaplin? 
I dunno

[Pay Dirt Norvelle]

I haven't looked at the you tube video, but somewhere I read that the U.S. Railroad Troops were issued Krags when they first went over to France.

[pony express]

Neat video of the bayonet drills. as for Krags in WW1, all I've ever read were that some units shipped overseas with them, but exchanged for '03/1917 s before going to combat.

[Niederlander]

I don't know about the rifles, but I know the bayonets were actually carried some in the infantry.  I've seen a photo of them wearing them.

[Charles Isaac]

    Americans doing a parade in England during WWI and the rifles are most certainly Krags.







    As far as use in the horrific conditions of WWI infantry combat-no documentation that I have ever heard of, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Krag was used. As we all know, no one can say it wasn't used anyways, meaning, they were there,  there was ammo for them and people knew how to use them.


I remember back in the '60's there was this Spanish American War Veteran that thought they never should have given up the Krag for the M1903 because, in his mind, the "firepower" of the 1903 was less important than the "sure fire accuracy of the Krag". There very well could have been some troops, maybe isolated instances, where one or more troops retained the rifles they were used to and went to the front with them. Stranger things have happened!

[Drydock]

The upshot of the video was that they had found a confirmed photo of an american soldier IN FRANCE with a Krag, thus he was going to include the american krag in his WW1 series. 

[Charles Isaac]

   

  So he says that the photo was taken in France, but, there is nothing in that video that proves to me that photo was taken in France. Sorry, but you've all heard the historic old saying "Tell it to a Marine", you know, cause we're like "Prove it."


    But I say, it's been proven that Krags made it to England, so it is reasonable to assume they made it to France.

[Scattered Thumbs]

All that is good and well. But I have my doubts they ever made it into combat.

[Niederlander]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a few were used for sniping and such.  I wouldn't think cartridges in loops would work very well in the muddy trench conditions for the regular infantry.

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

There's an old saying that America goes to war with what we have, not what we would like to have.

There were lots of '03s around in regular and Guard units but these numbers were tiny compared to the millions needed.  So somebody deciding that using stuff out of war reserve storage to fill the gap would make perfect sense.  Isn't that what "war reserve" is for?

Swapping for other weapons when troops got to Europe also makes perfect sense.  Injecting a new weapon into the mix (as would be necessary with the '03) means building the logistics to support it.  But while one is necessary, why would you do two if you didn't need to?  And that second weapon being obsolescent would not gain it  much support.

Didn't many Army units swap whatever they brought from home with British rifles when they arrived?  This likely demonstrates the logistic issues in the earliest days of the War.  Indeed Pershing's order that Marines wear Army uniforms was based on pure logistic considerations, IIRC.  If it works with uniforms why not with rifles?

Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics.  The saying still holds true! 

SQQ

[Scattered Thumbs]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a few were used for sniping and such.  I wouldn't think cartridges in loops would work very well in the muddy trench conditions for the regular infantry.

Sniping with a Krag with the "perfect sniper" in current use? Somehow I don't buy that.

[Niederlander]

Actually, the Army eventually made the National Guard units use the new Springfield instead of the Krag in the Army-wide matches because the Krag was considered a better target rifle.  From my experience with both, I would concur.  The Krag has gotten a lot of unfair bad press over the last hundred years.  An example is the speed of loading argument.  The Krag, when used in conjunction with the double row Mills belt, is actually faster to reload than a Springfield with stripper clips.  Mud is a problem for them, though.

[Bat 2919]

As late as 1993 the Krag (nickle plated, no less) was still in use with a Navy Reserve color guard unit.  I saw them in use at the first game the Colorado Rockies played in Colorado.  In the old Mile High Stadium, long before Coors field was built.

[Scattered Thumbs]

Actually, the Army eventually made the National Guard units use the new Springfield instead of the Krag in the Army-wide matches because the Krag was considered a better target rifle.  From my experience with both, I would concur.  The Krag has gotten a lot of unfair bad press over the last hundred years.  An example is the speed of loading argument.  The Krag, when used in conjunction with the double row Mills belt, is actually faster to reload than a Springfield with stripper clips.  Mud is a problem for them, though.

And now you got me. I have no personnal experience with either the Krag nor the 1903. My only experience is with the rifle the 1903 bas based on. The 1898 Mauser, and that one is amazing up to stupid ranges.
I' m solely based on the fact that the 1903 was used as sniper rifle from WW I up to at least Korea. That's a solid endorsement.  

[Niederlander]

The 1903 was based on the Mauser??!!!  (Of course it was.  World War 1 saved the U.S. from paying Mauser royalties on them.)  From what I've read, sniping in World War 1 was probably most often done without telescopic sights, so it was done primarily at ranges where the long range superiority of the .30-06 cartridge wasn't that big a deal.  H.W. McBride said the best sniper rifles he saw were German sporting rifles being used in the sniping role.  It would make sense that a hunting rifle would also be the best for hunting the most dangerous game of all.

[Drydock]

I've never understood the "Legendary" status of the 1903.  I have thought it chunky, ill balanced, and over cartridged. (like most any military rifle of that time)  For all that, its a good rifle.  But not at all a supremely accurate one.

Unless, of course, worked over by a Match Armorer.  Which can probably be said of any service rifle.

 I suspect a lot of it can be lain at the feet of old Marines who wanted to justify hanging on to the thing while the Army rearmed with Garands . . .

[Delmonico]

Read somewhere years ago a lot of the film and pictures of American troops in WWI were actually filmed somewhere on Long Island and were hired actors/extras wearing uniforms and a lot of the rifles were Krags, can't remember where I read it now.

[Grenadier]

"A little info from Mallory's The Krag Rifle Story:

"Thousands of Krags were taken to France with the Railway Engineer troops.A listing of the number of M1903 rifles shipped to Railway Engineer units in the AEF in Nov.1917 to replace their Krag rifles gives some indication of the number of Krags in France.

The total for the 10th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th,and 19th Engineers was 7,597 rifles."

"At least one of these Engineer units came under fire while armed with the Krag,so combat use in World War 1 cannot be excluded."


Wellington Barracks, London 1917

[Niederlander]

I've never understood the "Legendary" status of the 1903.  I have thought it chunky, ill balanced, and over cartridged. (like most any military rifle of that time)  For all that, its a good rifle.  But not at all a supremely accurate one.

Unless, of course, worked over by a Match Armorer.  Which can probably be said of any service rifle.

 I suspect a lot of it can be lain at the feet of old Marines who wanted to justify hanging on to the thing while the Army rearmed with Garands . . .

You're probably right.  I remember reading sometime back about Marines sticking with the '03 because they preferred it.  The gist was, of course the Marines would have preferred the Garand, but the Navy spent all it's money at the time on battleships.  Since we can't buy M1's, we prefer the Springfield!  Wasn't the first or last time equipment was chosen or not chosen on the basis of cost and available funds.