Very Important Day In History

[Steel Horse Bailey]

The Red Baron was shot down on this day. There are conflicting reports on who actually was responsible. One report says Australian ground troops, the other credits RAF Capt. Roy Brown...........Buck

Funny you mention that.  What with today's forensics, computers, etc. the outlook is pretty sure now.  I just this weekend saw a Red Baron show - revisited why?  It's the anniversary, as Buck has mentioned.  Anyhoo, the bright folks have figured out for SURE now, that Capt. Brown could NOT have fired the shot which wounded him and ultimately killed him after bringing him down.  I didn't know this particular detail until this show, but he WAS still alive when troops reached him at the wreckage site.  He looked up at the first ones to arrive and said "Kaputt."   It means, literally - "Broken." 

They still don't want to go out on a limb for sure WHICH Australian troops got him, but they even narrowed THAT down to near certainty - that I don't remember right now, just that it was one (probably) one of the 3 anti-aircraft machine gun batteries that have been claiming the kill all along - and they're about 95% (or more) sure WHICH one.  I just don't remember!    I don't suppose it matters all that much ... except that this part of history certainly needs re-writing!


In a very similar set of circumstances, the man who had received MOST of the credit for shooting down Admiral Yamamoto during WW Twice, Cpt. Thomas Lanphier, Jr. has pretty much been replaced and corrected by Lt. Rex Barber, who now has been credited by most authorities, after the wreckage of the plane was found.  This mission was planned and executed in secret, so the Japanese wouldn't know that we had broken their codes.  It was the longest intercept mission in WWII history - a round trip of nearly 900 miles: only possible, (at that time) using the P-38 Lightning twin engined fighter.

[Leo Tanner]

Interesting stuff.
     Yesterday the 2006 movie Flyboys was on.  I don't know how accurate it was but it gave some good insight to how it was to fly them things in WWI.  Canvas bodies instead of sheetmetal an open cockpits. 

     Steel I did a report back in school about the P-38.  What a great plane!  I also had a thing fer the gull wing Corsairs.  A family friend who flew one said not all pilots could cause the motor was so powerful that an enormous amount of strenght was required to control the thing.


Leo

[Arcey]

My interest has always leaned towards ships. Reckon y'all know that from me makin' a fool of myself writin' 'bout 'em.

Knew some stuff about the airplanes. The Corsairs, Mustangs, Avengers 'n the Lightning.

At an airshow on the base years ago, we were invited to put on an old car show 'n I jumped on it. Thinkin' back then the P-38 belonged to what was the Confederate Air Force. I couldn't believe what I'd read to be such a nimble airplane could be so big.

The P-38 Lightning. The Fork Tailed Devil.   

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Can't remember if those engines were Pratt&Whitneys or Wright's, but they put out 2800 HP! Used in The Corsairs, Hellcats, and Thunderbolts. The Naval ones also had a water injection system in them that would give short boost of extra power for emergencies....Buck

[Leo Tanner]

I'm always interested in the ships Arcey.  I have the passenger log from the Lucitania and wish there were more attention given to it then there is.  Personal reasons.

On the planes--done a lot of research on Claire Lee Chenault and his Flying Tigers.  Beleive they was P-40s, another great piece of machinery.


Leo

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Leo - yer talkin' my language!

The P-38 is one of my all-time faves!  I think I mentioned it before - my Dad flew Navy during WW II.  All kinds of single and twins.  He started in fighters, dive & torpedo bombers.  I asked him whether he'd ever flown the Corsair, and he said - unfortunately, no; but he HAD taxied a couple.  It was one of several planes that had to have a guy sittin' on the wing as a ground-guide, 'cause the vision was so restricted by that BIG, Honkin' powerplant!  R-2800, if I remember right.  28 cylinders; 2,500+ HP, swingin' a prop longer than most cars!  It was the first US plane to exceed 400 MPH in level flight - at sea level.  Most don't know, but it used the same engine and propeller as the B-29 bomber!  (See "Fifi" from the former Confederate Air Force, now the Commemorative A.F. - the last flying B-29. http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/campaign/fifi/index.php )

Sorry - this ain't real Cowboy! 

[Four-Eyed Buck]

SHB, I've seen FiFi twice here. Got to see her in action, the first time she came in. pilot's buzzed the field a couple time before they brought her in for landing. Didn't know she was hurting now. Wonder if there aren't any 2800's sitting some government warehouse someplace all crated and covered with dust and pigeon poop...........Buck

[Leo Tanner]

Can't be cowboy all the time   This is good stuff!
     While the Superfortresses were doin duty in the Pacific, my uncle was tailgunnin on a B-17 over North Africa an Europe. 
     There are some well preserved 2800's in museums--not 29's as far as I have seen, but the Corsairs.  I have ta Google the name of my dad's old football coach--he flew one of them things.


Leo

[Arcey]

Leo, if ya can get yer hands on a copy of Ballard's book on RMS Lusitania, grab it. The narrative is backed up by physical evidence still visible on the hull 'n what's left of the debris field. The photography 'n illustrations are unreal. I have one other but I can't think of the title of now, different author but it was quite good. I'll browse the shelves.

When my paternal Grandmother died I handled her estate. I was goin' thru the effects when I came across a postcard of RMS Mauritania, Lusitania's sister built by John Brown & Company. The card was from her second husband to his folks sayin' this was the ship bringin' him home from WWI.

I was a twenty year vet by then. They told me many happy stories about 'Uncle George'. He died of cancer a month before I was born. They never told me he was a policeman. Didn't know until I went thru those papers.

[Lucky Irish Tom]

Loved those WW I and II planes and ships, had models of most of the notable ones all over my room growing up.  Enjoy watching some of the shows on the History Channel that deal with the ships and planes of this time period.

[Leo Tanner]

Thank you Arcey.
     I WILL find that book.  My wfe had a relative that was on that ship. Meg's (Lil's) CAS name is Lily Lockwood and you will find her and her brother on the roster.  It means alot for her to learn as much as she can about it.


Leo

     

[Four-Eyed Buck]

When I was  kid, I had two or three bookshelves full of models of WW I and WW II aircraft and ships. Not to mention paperbacks of memoirs from pilots and sailors. History was my thing. Guess it still is..............Buck

[Arcey]

Guess I shouldah done this the first time. Getting' old.

Look up Ballard's creds in Google.   

http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Ballards-Lusitania-Probing-Mysteries/dp/0785822070

[Ozark Tracker]

when I was a kid, I knew a coupla fellas that had been pilots in WW2,  both of them had come home and were crop duster pilots when I knew em,  my Granddad had let them make a runway over on one side of his pasture. they land over there and take on water,  when they were flying I'd go over and wait for em to land, listen to their stories of flying and help em pump the water,
they'd let me sit in the plane, both of em flew Piper Cubs. I was about 6 or 7

saw one of get killed, early one morning,  when he hit some trees about a half mile from the house.  he had just filled up with water and I suppose didn't count on not being able to pull up,  Doyle Howerton was his name.    I was about 11 years old.

saw the other one hit a power line with his wheels a few years later, flipped that plane right over on it's back and on the ground.  he walked away and as far as I know he never flew again.

[Delmonico]

I'm always the odd one on military airplanes, I like the Swordfish, the obsolete torpedo bi-plane that stuck the one in the rudder of the Bismark.  So danged slow the fire controls on the Bismark shot in front of it. 

[Four-Eyed Buck]

The Brits called it the Stringbag.................Buck

[Leo Tanner]

I'm always the odd one on military airplanes, I like the Swordfish, the obsolete torpedo bi-plane that stuck the one in the rudder of the Bismark.  So danged slow the fire controls on the Bismark shot in front of it. 

So much fer all that training "leading" airborn targets!  I used ta love the Johnny Horton song about the sinking of the Bismark.  Haven't heard it in YEARS.

Buck--history is my thing too.  It was my favorite subject in school and still is today.  Can't plan the future if ya don't know the past I guess
Still tryin ta get the kids ta understand that whenever I'm watchin sumpthin "borrrrring".  I think they're startin ta get it


Leo

[Four-Eyed Buck]

On this day in 1889, 20 minutes ago the first Oklahoma Land Rush began............Buck



Boomer/ Sooner is created...............

[Steel Horse Bailey]

On this day in 1889, 20 minutes ago the first Oklahoma Land Rush began............Buck

Boomer/ Sooner is created...............

Howdy!

Mr. & Mrs. Tomey lived next door to my (step) Grandparents.  They seemed older than dirt, but were wonderful folks.  In 1889, a THEN 17 year old Mr. Tomey and his new 16 year old bride were part of that 1st Oklahoma Land Rush.  I wish I had been old enough (and mature enough) to talk more than I did to them.  (I was 8-12 years old while one or both still lived, back in the 60s.)

[Ozark Tracker]

I've talked with several people who participated in the land run,  heard several say they brought in everything from race horses to get the place they wanted to some people who rode cows and walked and got some land,  had a room mate in college that had some pictures of his Grandfather when he was staking out his acreage, he had walked and led a milk cow with him.