Would you buy a new .44 Spcl Henry?

[wool]

Yes, if you could arrange delivery to the UK !

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Why couldn't a fella make a permanent chamber insert/adapter for a 44-40 Henry? In other words machine from a piece of steel a 44-40 cartridge that would match the chamber of said rifle, then "chamber" the insert to .44 Special. The bolt and or extractor might require a little modification.

  There are inserts such as this available that allow a .308 to be fired in a 30-06. Folks use them in their Garands.

CHT

[Abilene]

  Why couldn't a fella make a permanent chamber insert/adapter for a 44-40 Henry? In other words machine from a piece of steel a 44-40 cartridge that would match the chamber of said rifle, then "chamber" the insert to .44 Special. The bolt and or extractor might require a little modification.

  There are inserts such as this available that allow a .308 to be fired in a 30-06. Folks use them in their Garands.

CHT

If you look at the outer dimensions of the two cartridges you will see that is not possible.

[Dave T]

Since the 44 Special doesn't seem to be happening, I'll throw out what I think is even a better idea in the interest of authenticity.

The Henry was chambered for the 44 Henry Flat (case length of .875") and fired a 200g bullet at ~ 1125 fps. A Henry chambered for the 44 Russian (case length of .97") could load a 200g bullet and duplicate the original velocity with black powder or smokeless. And it would be much closer to the original than the current offering of 44 WCF or even the 44 Special discussed in this thread.

With all that said I'm curious if any gunsmiths out there think it would be possible to re-chamber a modern Henry to 44 Russian?

Dave

[Coffinmaker]

SURE!!  Easy Peasy.  All you need is a gunsmith some familiar with Toggle Link rifles and has done a fair amount of barrel lining.  Bore the chamber out of a 44-40, install a sleeve insert and chamber it for 44 Russian.  You'll have a bit of free bore unless your Smith is creative with the sleeve, but I would doubt you'd notice any accuracy problems.

Install a cartridge stop in the carrier block with a clearance slot in the side of the Breach Block and your in business.

I have a rifle that is part way there.  I have an 1866 in 44 Special with a custom carrier that runs 44 Russian like wet grain thru a Goose.

Option number two.  Pull the barrel, Cut the tenon (threaded part) and the rest of the 44-40 chamber off the barrel then re-establish the tenon, chamber it, set the head space, slot the breach for the extractor and rim guide and your I business.  

Neither solution is particularly "cheap" but both are very doable.  I'd have done it already, but found C45S cases in a 45 Rifle to be Soooooo much easier.

PS:  Another thought ..... Try ordering a 44 Special Henry barrel from Uberti.  You may grow old waiting ..........

PSS:  Another another thought.  Contact the "Big Cheese" at Henry Repeating Arms and ask if he would be willing to make you a special order Henry in 44 Special??  Or even build you one in 44 Russian??  Well worth a try.  Worst is he could say no .........

[Long Johns Wolf]

Coffinmaker and the campfire: there is an alternative for you pards and pardettes to end up eventually with a Uberti Henry in .44 Special.
Order what Uberti calls a "semi finished" Henry barrel assembly in .44 cal. (.429 groove dia) without a chamber!
Long Johns Wolf

[Dave T]

PSS:  Another another thought.  Contact the "Big Cheese" at Henry Repeating Arms and ask if he would be willing to make you a special order Henry in 44 Special??  Or even build you one in 44 Russian??  Well worth a try.  Worst is he could say no .........

I did and they said no.....

Dave

[Coffinmaker]

How Rude.

LJW's suggestion makes real good sense.  Don't know what the wait would be though.  Worth a shot.  If doing the "semi finished," Cut barrel or chamber sleeve ....... be sure to special order a chambering reamer at the minimum spec.  My 44 Special 1866 chamber is large enough several of us could walk through it hand in hand.  There is so much Blow-By the chamber fouls out in 4 rounds of BP or Sub.  To actually run BP or Sub, I have resorted to annealed cases (Thanks OD#3) which work a treat.

Uberti did build and market some 44 Special Henry rifles.  A long time ago in a Galaxy Far Far away > > > > > > > > 

[Coal Creek Griff]

I agree with Dave T.  If I could wave a magic wand and have any current caliber, I'd make it a 44 Russian.  If my magic wand was really powerful, I'd have it in 44 Henry centerfire and have Starline start making the brass, RCBS making the dies, I'd get a mold from Accurate Molds...  I'd better stop dreaming--I get carried away sometimes.  On the other hand, the "modern" 56-50 Spencer round was developed and the "modern" 44 Colt round came along too.

CC Griff

[2jakes]

For a Few Dollars More (1967)

I would buy this one if it was available.
And would feel a lot better if he pointed that rifle in another direction! 

[Coffinmaker]

Come to think of it, I really wonder where they found an original Volcanic Rifle.  Even more of a question is how they managed to talk the person whom own'd said Volcanic into letting them use it inna movie.  You just don't throw something that valuable around like a bag of Pop Corn.

A few years ago there was fella (Long Thread on Paco Kelly's Lever forum) scratch built a modern reproduction of a Volcanic.  Used a .40 Auto cartridge.  I wouldn't mind having that either.

I really need to win the Lotto.

[Will Ketchum]

Come to think of it, I really wonder where they found an original Volcanic Rifle.  Even more of a question is how they managed to talk the person whom own'd said Volcanic into letting them use it inna movie.  You just don't throw something that valuable around like a bag of Pop Corn.

A few years ago there was fella (Long Thread on Paco Kelly's Lever forum) scratch built a modern reproduction of a Volcanic.  Used a .40 Auto cartridge.  I wouldn't mind having that either.

I really need to win the Lotto.

I was wondering the same thing but don't recall seeing it in the actual movie.

Will Ketchum

[2jakes]

 "For a Few Dollars More" (1967).

The volcanic rifle in the movie has a ring like for a sling strap.




Engraved receiver.

I owned a Henry 44-40 octogon barrel, brass receiver by Uberti back in 1990.
I know that it was too heavy to hold it like Eastwood is doing in the movie.
I'm not familiar with these rifles to determine what model was used in the movie
that he was able to hold it with one hand, unless the dude was super strong to hold
it like that for a long time.

I was wondering if anyone knows what model was used and if it's available as a reproduction.

Or if this was only a "Hollywood prop".
Similar to the movie., 'The Good, the Bad & the Ugly".
Where Tuco walks into a gun shop, takes several black powder revolvers from different companies
and within minutes manages to convert the black powder revolver to use cartridges.
I'm no expert, but is this possible to do so that quick

[Major 2]

A Few Dollars More was filmed in Spain as was TGBU & several others....

The gun is a Volcanic in 41 cal.  either had a 20" barrel , Eastwood has it tucked under his arm, Easily held as the photo shows.

Stembridge Gun rentals of Hollywood probably had a Volcanic or two, but I don't think this FDM gun was one of theirs.

They did produce a Hollywood Henry made from a 92 Winchester, seen in more than few Films & TV shows.

Stembridge is no more, its vast collection sold off in auctions some years back .

[Major 2]

1892 Winchester converted to Henry appearance by Stembridge Gun Rentals in the 1950's before the advent of reproductions. The gun measures approx. 41-1/2" overall with 22-1/2" round barrel, full magazine. The frame is extended approx. 1-3/8" with false Henry type magazine spring lever, and a long range tang sight added. The barrel and small parts have been nickeled, the frame and buttplate gold-plated. The stock is stamped "C. B. 176". The action good, the bore rough from shooting 5-in-1 blanks. The barrel is in .44-40 caliber, but not for firing live rounds. This exact rifle was included in the Stembridge Gun Rentals sale and was noted at that time as being used in the 1964 Western movie Cheyenne Autumn, by John Ford starring Richard Widmark, Carl Malden, and Jimmie Stewart and a host of other famous actors including Mike Mazurki. This was Ford's last film in Monument Valley and there is a fun scene of Jimmie Stewart as Wyatt Earp in Dodge City. 1892 Henrys like this are in many other films throughout the 1960's and also a couple of shots in Silverado

[Coffinmaker]

Additionally ..... Now that we are successfully drifting without a rudder ......
There is a surprisingly large and active collectors movement in Europe (Just ask Long Johns Wolf) for antique American guns.  Also quite the market for specialty Gun Smiths who built super authentic reproductions of Colt pattern conversions (just ask Long Johns Wolf) and the existence of an original Volcanic is not really surprising.  That an owner of one would let it be used in a movie is surprising however.

The Volcanic pictured does have a sling loop of a type not seen (at least not by me) on later Henry Rifles.  With the manner Eastwood is holding the rifle, can't see the sling mount in the Butt Stock.  I shoot several custom carbine length Henry Rifles.  They could be held in the same manner as the shorter barrel is much more user friendly.  That said, the Eastwood rifle is an actual Volcanic, which is considerably smaller and lighter than a Henry.

[treebeard]

Ok— so what is the big deal with 44 Special?

[Dave T]

Ok— so what is the big deal with 44 Special?

I'll give you my answer, but that doesn't mean it applies to anyone else.

The 44 Special is much closer "in spirit" to the original 44 Henry Flat than the 44 WCF (44/40) that is generally offered in Henry reproductions. And just as the 44 Special is closer, the 44 Russian would be even closer...in spirit.

YMMV,
Dave

[treebeard]

I guess I kinda thought that a 44-40 with 200gr bullet in front of 28gr of black powder would come reasonably close to the original Henry performance. I agree with the suggestion of reproduceing the original 44 Henry CF case thru Starline and chamber that in a repro Henry or 1866.

[Coffinmaker]

Dave T.  Hit the nail onna head first try.  The Original Henry rifle was chambered in 44 Henry Flat.  The closest cartridge we have to that today is the 44 Russian.  Acquiring a Henry, chambered in  44 Special (Hen's Teeth) enables one to then modify a Carrier Block to permit the use of 44 Russian cases to closely mime 44 Henry Flat.  As previously noted .... "In Spirit."  Today, nobody is chambering anything rifle in 44 Russian.  Nor 44 Henry Central Fire.  Nor making rifles in those calibers.  So we hope to improvise .... "In Spirit" as it twer.

On the other hand, I have taken a different tach with my own personal rifles.  45 Squirt.  The 45 Squirt is a 45 Schofield case cut to the same length as the 45 ACP.  Fired in a rifle chambered in 45 Colt.  With an appropriate cartridge stop added to the Henry Carrier Block, and the Breach Block clearance for the cartridge stop, a reproduction Henry will contain a whole pile of them (45 Squirts).  You may also substitute C45S cases.  Same same overall dimensions.

I too would covet a 44 Special Henry, just to be able to harken back to those Halcyon days of Yesteryear.  Butt.  And However.  I can already do that with my 45 Caliber Rifles.  They cycle 45 Squirt or C45S like wet grain thru a goose and since I already held ownership, the modifications were dirt cheap although making 45 Squirt is real boring.  The result has been worth it.  FUN.  Real FUN has been the result.  And utilizing a cartridge case more approximating the 44 Henry Flat than does 44-40 or 45 Colt.

So, in summation, there are those of us Loony enough to see approximating the Original cartridge with more modern and available cartridge cases as a genuine accomplishment just for FUN.  Atz why I built an 1866 chambered in 44 Special into a 16 inch barrel Trapper and set it up to run 44 Russian to partner up with a pair of 1872 Open Top pistols chambered in 44 Colt and running the same 44 Russian cases as might have been back in the day with the original Open Top and an original '66.  Just for fun.  Also had a great set of buckskins (shirt and pants) made me look like Fox Creek Kid to go with the guns (then I got fat) (and old).  So the whole shebang boils down to ...

                                                                                FUN