44spl vs 45lc in winchester 1866?

Professor Marvel · January 01, 2017, 07:06:54 PM

Quote from: nativeshooter on January 01, 2017, 02:31:31 PM
would be nice if you could buy a flat loading gate for a 66 winchester, instead of making one.

Isn't that what 3-D printers are for?

That's what they told me, buy a 3-D printer and print any part you need!
Oh, in plastic.

Still waiting for that. That and my Flying car...

yhs
prof marvel

Coffinmaker · January 02, 2017, 03:05:13 PM

Flat Loading Gate .... Ugh.

Way back in the Way Back (Sherman and the Professor), during the development and intro of the 1866, a flat loading gate was used. It sucked. I even made one for one of my project rifles. It sucked. Very difficult to keep cartridges aligned as you stuffed em inna Carrier Block. Winchester and B. Tyler very quickly dropped the flat gate and went to what we know ad the "Ladle." Nice deep scoop.

The Scoop serves two purposes. It guides the cartridge into the carrier block. The depth of the scoop allows it to form part of the cartridge stop. Not so much for a 38 Spl, but let us remember, neither B. Tyler nor Oliver Baby ever built a rifle in .38 Spl. Enter Aldo and the boys from Bresica. First thing the did was change the ladle from a nice deep scoop to that ridiculous shallow scoop. Dumb. then they improved it. Took the "never breaks" stop of the back and put the "always breaks" bent tab on it. Dumber. The after-market ladles have a nice deep scoop but still need the "STUPID" bent tab reinforced. Where was I going ........ Oh yeh.

Nativeshooter wanted a flat loading gate. Be very careful what you wish for. We could wind up going from a ladle that sucks to a trix looking flat gate that REALLY sux.

Coffinmaker

nativeshootist · January 04, 2017, 03:51:59 AM

Doesnt Ubertis scooped ladle break anyways? i like the little odd things. but really lazy when it comes to doing anything. so i'll just replace the uberti gate with a good one when i get it. Sorry coffinmaker if i get under your skin.

Coffinmaker · January 04, 2017, 02:48:22 PM

Oh KRAP!! Please don't be under the impression you've gotten or get. under my skin. No way. I just get some wordy in my explanations some times and I really like to embellish some of my dislikes. Sort of like doing dishes, that sort of thing.

Yes. Uberti's "scooped" ladle breaks anyway. Never mind the dumb thing is too shallow. But being too shallow also contributes to the dumb little tab breaking. The only thing the cartridge base has to stop it, is that dumb tab. The too shallow scoop doesn't extend deep enough into the receiver to act as any kind of "stop." Icky Foo.

The new and improved (barf) Uberti gate is guaranteed to break. May take 500 rounds, maybe only 5. Out of the box "good" replacements will last some longer but still need reinforcement. It's only a 1 cup job but still should not be required. That stupid tab is the only "week" part of an 1866. Really nice rifles. Tune up super smooth. I like em (brass rifles) better than a '73 anyday.

Coffinmaker

nativeshootist · January 05, 2017, 12:10:42 AM

lol, alright. The ladles on track of the wolf seem too fit the bill
Side note* would 45 acp work in a 45lc with a modified lifter or no?

Major 2 · January 05, 2017, 05:12:55 AM

Quote from: nativeshooter on January 05, 2017, 12:10:42 AM
lol, alright. The ladles on track of the wolf seem too fit the bill
Side note* would 45 acp work in a 45lc with a modified lifter or no?

take more then that.... 45acp is rimless .... you also got your ejectors , chamber seat....$$$$$$ then no

Will Ketchum · January 05, 2017, 10:40:12 AM

However the 45 ACP rimmed, developed for use in S&W and Colt revolvers so they didn't require half moon clips would remedy the issues the good Major mentions.

Will Ketchum

Blair · January 05, 2017, 01:40:22 PM

The problem with that idea is that it requires the rear of the cylinder to be trimmed to allow for the added thickness of the .45 auto rim and/or the moon clips.
Once this has been done, then one can only use either .45 auto rim ammo or the moon clips. The moon clips can be hard to find as well as getting the .45 auto rim cases.

.45apc will not work in a .45 colt or S&W chamber. Why? Because auto pistol cartridge are head spaced off of the mouth of the cartridge within the chamber.
My best,
Blair

Will Ketchum · January 05, 2017, 01:45:46 PM

Ruger at one time, they still may, made a Blackhawk with convertible cylinders, one for the 45 Colt and the other for the ACP. As I recall the ACP cylinder didn't require half moon clips but rather they were cut so the case mouth head spaced on a ridge in the case.
My BIL had one and we often shot 45 ACPs in it.

Blair · January 05, 2017, 01:58:02 PM

Will,

This is very true.
However, it required you to swap out the ACP cylinder due the head space for the two different types of ammo.
One being based on the rim, the other being based on the cartridge case mouth.
My best,
Blair

nativeshootist · January 05, 2017, 07:14:11 PM

Uh, how did we go from talking about a lever action to a revolver

Coffinmaker · January 05, 2017, 08:03:04 PM

Because YOU pried the lid off that can of worms simply by mentioning "45 ACP." Instant thread drift. Or Hi Jacking. Some folks are just crouching in the bushes, Waiting for just that kind of opening. Drive a thread straight off a cliff. Karunch!!

Bestest answer to your question is NO.

Major 2 gave you some, but not all of the "laundry list" of required changes for a Toggle Link Rifle to run 45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). It is much much easier to get your rifle to run Cowboy 45 Special.

Coffinmaker

nativeshootist · January 06, 2017, 04:06:06 AM

oh, well.....thanks

i kinda glanced over it. 45 spl is kinda hard to find. The website you linked me too didn't have a buy now on it.

Coffinmaker · January 06, 2017, 12:08:00 PM

Nope. The ACA web site leaves a lot to be desired. The few folks I have talked to, whom have done business with them, said they had to call.

Fortunately, I have a pile of C45S and a goodly supply of 45 Henry Squirt (same same made from 45 Schofield brass).

Coffinmaker

nativeshootist · January 06, 2017, 06:14:47 PM

oh, thanks for the tip! i see how they shoot out of my pistol.

Tuolumne Lawman · January 30, 2017, 06:25:34 PM

The only upside I see to a .44 Special 1866 is for someone using 44 Specials/Colt as main match guns. That is a VERY small number. Besides, a .45 Schofield does a great job of duplicating the original .44 Rimfire load, getting about 1100+ FPS from 28 grain volume of BP or substitute with a 200 to 230 grain bullet. I get 14 to 15 rounds of Schofield in my Henry, depending on bullet I use. Right now, I have 1,000 of the 200 grain Stateline Schofield bullets, so I will use those.

Major 2 · February 04, 2017, 07:27:45 AM

"...someone using 44 Specials/Colt as main match guns"

"a VERY small number"

hmmm.... I'm one

anybody else ? ....for one thing I get 99% of my brass back

Tuolumne Lawman · February 04, 2017, 08:28:50 AM

Quote from: Major 2 on February 04, 2017, 07:27:45 AM
"...someone using 44 Specials/Colt as main match guns"

"a VERY small number"

hmmm.... I'm one anybody else ? ....for one thing I get 99% of my brass back

LOL! I used a couple Open tops in .44 Colt/Special for a year, but never could find a 66 in .44 Special to mate with it.

Abilene · February 04, 2017, 09:17:40 AM

Pair of 44 Spcl Colts plus the '66. Was my main match guns for some years. Shoot them a couple times a year now.

Major 2 · February 04, 2017, 09:31:04 AM

44 COLT Type 2 & and OT w/ a 73 in 44 Special .

I trained my finger tips to feel the rim difference , but still use a blue sharpie mark on the Special rim face.