Why does a bigger ball make a difference in a revolver?

[Remington Kid]

Just for the heck of it lets say were shooting a Remington .44. ... A .451 or a .454 ball will both shave a little lead as it's seated in the chambers but the .454 seems to give better accuracy. My question is ...Why? No matter what I stuff in that chamber it will not be any larger than the chamber.
If I'm correct then the as the lead ball leaves the chamber the .454 may be a little longer than the .451 but that will not make it fit the lans and grooves of the barrel any tighter. In other words ... the .451 and the .454 should leave the cylinder chamber the same diamiter so how would the .454 or any other size improve on accuracy ?
On a muzzle loader we try to get as tight a fit as we can but the ball is shaped to the lans and grooves as it is pushed down the barrel and that makes perfect sence, but thats not true on a C&B revolver.

[Lars]

If you want to put bigger balls in your C&B, get the chambers reamed out to take them. Chambers on mine are reamed to 0,454 and I use 0,457 balls. That way, when the actual 0,454 ball goes through the forcing cone to a 0,452-0,454 bore, it fits like it should. That is how a C&B should be set up. It is also how Ruger OAs are set up.

Lars

[Remington Kid]

Lars, Yep, you got the right idea and the way to make it fit just right. Slugging a barrel will tell you just what you need and there is really no need to go bigger the the grooves. No matter how much bigger the ball is than the grooves once it's headed down the barrel it will not get any bigger or expand any larger than the grooves.
What I'm asking is why does a .454 ball shoot any better than a .451 ball from the same chamber if they both shave lead on the way in. Once there forced in the chamber they are the size of the chamber, no more , no less no matter what you use.

[Cuts Crooked]

It's because the bearing surface of the ball is longer on the larger diameter ball. Ergo the flat ring around the ball, after it has been forced into the chamber, is slightly longer (top to bottom)  and therefor creates more surface area engaging the rifling.

Try this, load a .457 ball in an empty chamber and then push it out with a small steel rod through the hole for the nipple (be careful not bugger up the threads) then do the same thing with a .451...examine the flat rings on each. You'll understand then.

[Remington Kid]

Cuts Crooked, I understand what your saying and I have slugged a few guns over the years as well as measured the chambers. The idea that the larger slug would be elongated more than the smaller one is what i mentioned above. I just didn't think it would make that big of a difference but now you really got me thinking We agree on the bigger ball being more elongated is a good thing but.....It seems to me that it would be better to slug the barrel and then enlarge the cylinders a few thousands over that to get a ball that fits the lans and grooves just right like Lars did. Or is one really better over the other? Now you guy's are going to keep me awake all night thinking about this

[Cuts Crooked]

I've found that enlarging the chambers does wonders actually! However, even then, the larger the ball, the more bearing surface you get...it's a plus/plus situation!

[Remington Kid]

I've found that enlarging the chambers does wonders actually! However, even then, the larger the ball, the more bearing surface you get...it's a plus/plus situation!

That makes sence to me ! A .457 ball would give more bearing surface . Thanks guys. Been at this for years and I still learn new things. Guess there's hope for old cowboys after all 

[hellgate]

Another factor may be that the larger dia ball probably obturates a little bit more to better fill the grooves as it enters the barrel. Who know, the ball may even assume a slightly better aerodynamic shape for better stability in flight.

[Lars]

I once swaged some 54 caliber balls down for use in 50 caliber gun. Gave nicely elonged bullets that shot quite well. Did not have means to swage down to 45 caliber. Would seem to be nice way to make stubby conicals.

Lars

[Dick Dastardly]

The above posts help explain the supurb performance and accuracy of the DD/ROA bullets, especially in the ROAs.  The bullets drop from the mold at .457 and are lube/sized to .454 for a nice snug interference fit without shaving lead in the ROA.  They are a true flat base bullet with a huge Big Lube ^(tm)  lube grove.  No other lube is desired or needed.  They sit square on the chamber face and load fast.

I've attempted to attach an image.  If it works, note the rebated .452 base, the thin lube dam ring and the huge lube grove.  These bullets easily run twelve stage matches without need to clean or lubericate the gun to maintain function or accuracy.

DD-DLoS

[Remington Kid]

Dick, Where do you get the bullets your showing above ? I'm really impressed with the looks of them and would like to learn more. With that lube groove and the way they would sit in the chamber it should not be a problem to load them straight. Thanks for any other info you may have, Mike

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Remington Kid,

I didn't want to get real commercial here, so I sent ya an emule.  Let me know if it comes thru ok.

DD-DLoS

[Remington Kid]

Howdy Remington Kid,

I didn't want to get real commercial here, so I sent ya an emule.  Let me know if it comes thru ok.

DD-DLoS

Dick, Got your email and sent one back. Hope you got it amd that we can connect on the phone in the next day or so. Thanks again for the info, Mike

[Paladin UK]

Ho Dick..........
When ya gonna make one fer the ASM/Uberti Cattleman C&B



Lee already make one BUT the lube groove was way too SMALL!!!

Paladin (What lurvs his ASM  ) UK

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Paladin UK,

What's the prefered diameter for the Cattleman?  That is, if it's lube/sized, what size will fit the chambers?

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

[Elm Creek Smith]

Mr. Dastardly,

I see yer bullet is fer the Rooger Ol' Army. Any idee if'n it would work in my Pie-etta .44 Remington NMA? If not, what changes would be needed to yer design to make it work?

Yer pard,

ECS

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy ECS,

When ya mike yer chambers, whut do ya get.  The DD/ROA drops at around .4565 to .457 OD with a .452 rebated heal below the lower lube ring.  If a .452 size will fit well inside yer chamber and a .454" lube/sized boolit gives ya a snug interference fit, yer in.  The next consideration is wether or not there's room under the rammer for a conical boolit.  Even though this one sits partially into the chamber, you may not have clearance under the ram.  If this is the case, I'd suggest getting one of the cylinder loading stands from Powder Inc. and load the cylinder outside the revolver.

If ya order a bullet sampler I'll send half lube/sized and half as dropped.  I'll also include one of my bullet vials.  Handy lil things, them.  They hold five lube/sized DD/ROA boolits end to end, ready for the loading table.

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

[Rusty Shackleford]

Because bigger balls make a difference in any situation 

[Paladin UK]

Ho Dick....................

The recommended ball fer the ASM/Uberti  is .454 But I know the Lee .44 conical fits OK

I will  mike the ASM and ask Ned ta mike his Uberti so`s we can give ya the EXACT measurements

Paladin (What would lurv a DD big lube boolit fer his ASM ) UK

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Paladin UK, Pard,

I think you've got it.  I think if you lube/size the DD/ROA to .452 it may well do your bidding for the ASM 44.  What ya want is a nice snug interference fit with no shaved metal.

If you or any of yer pards have a lube/sizer with a .452 die, give it a go and see how it fits.  Put powder in first tho.  .  .  .

Let me know.

DD-DLoS