1851 "made in italy"

[eljay]

friend of mine has a nickel plated engraved 1851 cap ball revolver. the only markings he can find is  "made in Italy " stamp. is there any way that he can find out who actually manufactured this revolver? reason being he would like to fit a kirst conversion cylinder to it, but first we need to ascertain who made it, uberti or pietta fine ASM or ASP probably too hard. remembering that we are in Australia, so comments like "take it to a dealer/gunsmith" just don't work down under. competent western action 'smiths are thin on the ground. if it all becomes too hard, he will probably just buy a conversion or open top. thanks in anticipation pards.

[Abilene]

no markings or symbols on the barrel under the rammer?

[eljay]

Abilene, I wont be able to eyeball the pistol for a week or two, as the owner has work commitments, when I get my hands on it I will go over it with a fine toothcomb for any and all markings.

[Professor Marvel]

greetings

start with the barrel. look at all the flats, and especially under the loading lever.



look on the both sides of the frame as well as the bottom








look on the underside of the grip frame.




remove the grips and look at the sides of the grip frame.


unfortunately, numbers and proof marks won't help determine the maker.
also unfortunately, most "nickel plated engraved colts" were brass framed. So have him take a magnet ot it.
If it does not attract a magnet, you can't put a conversion cylinder on it anyway.

if there are no markings at all, and it *is* steel, the only recourse os to accurately measure the length, and diameter of the existing cylinder, and the diameter of the arbor. with that data, you can get the correct cylinder.

hope this helps
prof marvel

[Coffinmaker]

This will be of no help.  Of course, it wasn't meant to be of any help.  It's Monday, after all.  Help on Mondays is expensive.  It's just.

The perfesseur reminded me just how many different places the Italian Manufacturers have found to prominently display, or conveniently hide their makers marks and proof marks.  It seems ridiculous to have to pull a gun down to scattered parts to find whom made the thing. 

See??  No help.  Monday.  I have a great dislike of Mondays.

Coffinmaker

[eljay]

sorry coffinmaker, just not good enough, its been Tuesday here for 14 hours, lift your game eh?

[Gaucho Gringo]

Most if not all nickle plated replica cap & ball revolvers are brass framed which makes them unsuitable to use conversion cylinders.

[Professor Marvel]

Hi Gaucho - great minds think alike  

Hey Coffin - I am just grateful that they don't mark them inside the frame under all the moving bits!

for example, I have in my possesion right now, a stripped remmy frame that I obtained thinking it was nickeled, and thus probably brass. there are no markings at all, except the what may be the date code. no proof marks, nada.

oooh i lied. was wrong
it has ser number on bottom of gripframe, and on right front of frameis the date code, "PN" proof mark and "crossed cannon" proof house mark. but no makers mark.
It does accept Pietta guts, cylinder and barrel, soooo ....

And, it is mildly magnetic, and the flashing on the inside of the gripframe is quite hard to file, and shows no brass after filing...
turns out it is stainless!   so my plans to perform a terrible surgical reduction (ie chop job) are undergoing extreme review.

back on topic,
Good Luck Eljay

yhs
prof marvel

[pony express]

Perfesser- I looked at a similar Remington at a gunshow once-it was a purty thing, nickel frame with blued barrel and cylinder. Seller was trying to tell me it was stainless, but the casting marks in the frame window and in the sight groove looked too much like the brass Remington kit I put together once, so I didn't bite. If he'd pulled out a magnet to prove it was what he said, well, it would have been worth his asking price, then. Considering the one you have, maybe it was stainless?

[Coffinmaker]

ElJay,

Sorry Mate.  Miss'd your physical location (Down Under) when I read yer original post.  Most apologetic are I.  But, since it seems, it's already tomorrow, today, and your actually in the future, you already know what I'd probably post, since here is actually your past, I probably shouldn't bother??    Now it's Wednesday/Tuesday, or is it actually Tuesday/Wednesday ...... I are so fumcusedalated 

Ah My Dear Perfesser.  Such a quandary.  Sometimes I'm not so sure they (the Italians) don't stamp em under the moving parts.  They (the Italians) do have a penchant for hiding pertinent information in the oddest of places.  However:

Since it seems you have a Sterling example of a Stainless Remington, at least the frame??  It might be considered prudent to delay any chopping and channeling until one decides on whether to French the Tail Lights.  Stainless bits for a Pietta aren't all that hard to come by and stainless does respond well to a diet of 2 or 3F.  Although, my Hacksaw is most always quivering in anticipation.  Drooling as it twer.

Coffinmaker

Pony Express ..... Always .... Always take a pocket Magnet (separated from your credit cards  ) to a Gun Show.  It should seem, many of those Sterling Vendors ...... will ...... Lie through their teeth    Not that I have ever seen that ............

[eljay]

OK, had another look at it today, xxvv stamp on frame, .36 cal made in Italy on barrel flat, frame magnetic, and that's about it. except, conversion cylinders are virtually impossible to obtain down under, the owner has decided to keep it as is, now I have to try and source a 1858 Remington conversion in .38 special for him. (and a 1860 Richards second model also in .38 for me) very hard to get uberti conversions down here. but thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.

[Major 2]

OK, had another look at it today, xxvv stamp on frame, .36 cal made in Italy on barrel flat, frame magnetic, and that's about it. except, conversion cylinders are virtually impossible to obtain down under, the owner has decided to keep it as is, now I have to try and source a 1858 Remington conversion in .38 special for him. (and a 1860 Richards second model also in .38 for me) very hard to get uberti conversions down here. but thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.

XXVV   ...is a puzzle ... 1969 XXV -  XXIV is 68   the is no XXVV in Roman numerals  maybe miss stamped or read ?

if it's an early  one     I'm leaning Rigarmi  .... I doubt  Gregorelli and Uberti    (GU ) in that era

Basicity though , there a two OAL lengths in the conversion cylinders (  Kirst vs R&D ) Pietta vs Uberti ...measure the cylinder OAL
and BOBs your Uncle.... there is the inevitable fitment

[Hoof Hearted]

XXVV   ...is a puzzle ... 1969 XXV -  XXIV is 68   the is no XXVV in Roman numerals  maybe miss stamped or read ?

if it's an early  one     I'm leaning Rigarmi  .... I doubt  Gregorelli and Uberti    (GU ) in that era

Basicity though , there a two OAL lengths in the conversion cylinders (  Kirst vs R&D ) Pietta vs Uberti ...measure the cylinder OAL
and BOBs your Uncle.... there is the inevitable fitment

GU revolvers were first available in 60/61 and by 1969 were all just marked Uberti.

[Professor Marvel]

Hey Hoof Hearted! Grand to see you! Hope all is well, Happy Holidays & etc.

Thanks for chiming in, I am compiling a Page Of Useful Knowledge and will add your input, thanks!

yhs
prof ( happy new year to all ) marvel

[Hoof Hearted]

GU revolvers were first available in 60/61 and by 1969 were all just marked Uberti.

I would venture to guess that that "XXVV" is actually XXIV............

[Major 2]

I would venture to guess that that "XXVV" is actually XXIV............

My thought as well, and the reason I stated "  I doubted  Gregorelli and Uberti " 

Uberti had gone it alone, having bought out  Gregorelli  by that 1968 date.


good to see you back Gary 

[Coffinmaker]

Ha.  No Way.  It's simply a miss-marked Volkswagen.  Kubelwagen.  Although, with the wiggly under barrel thingie it could be the wheel jack assembly for a KubelWagen.  Or not.  Probably just an Italian made copy of a Kubelwagen.  Steel frame Italian copy of a Kubelwagen.

Coffinmaker

[Hoof Hearted]

Ha.  No Way.  It's simply a miss-marked Volkswagen.  Kubelwagen.  Although, with the wiggly under barrel thingie it could be the wheel jack assembly for a KubelWagen.  Or not.  Probably just an Italian made copy of a Kubelwagen.  Steel frame Italian copy of a Kubelwagen.

Coffinmaker

Bahahahhahaa