Old vs new repro 66's?

treebeard · October 02, 2016, 11:02:24 AM

Since 1866 model repro's have been made for several decades I was interested to know if in the event of a needed repair if replacement parts are a problem if the rife in question is more than say 20 years old. I see these at gun shows and auction sites quite often.

major · October 02, 2016, 11:19:17 AM

Sometimes it can be a problem. Over the years Uberti made "improvements/upgrades" to all there guns and some of the older parts are not available and the new parts are not always a drop in fit. Many time you wind up replacing several parts to get the one fixed that was broken or have to modify the new part to fit in an older version of the gun.

Pettifogger · October 02, 2016, 11:30:30 AM

There are two basic iterations. The very early 66s, which are most often found with Navy Arms markings, had a short 1.5" carrier. The later guns, Henry, 66 and 73s all have 1.6" carriers. There are also some internal differences between the old and new model 66s. There are no parts for the old 1.5" carrier models.

treebeard · October 02, 2016, 12:59:09 PM

Looks like either take a chance that the rifle will not break parts or carry a dial caliper (like I often do) to the gun shows to make sure you
Get the 1.5 inch carrier models. Thanks for the insights!

Coffinmaker · October 03, 2016, 10:26:43 AM

No ...... You want a Rifle with the 1.6inch Carrier Blocks. Just to "pile on" with Pettifogger, there are NO parts available for the the old
1.5inch carrier rifles. The dimensions of EVERYTHING are different.

Pettifogger also mentions numerous "internal" differences. Some enhancements were not so enhancing. Such as the "new and improved ladle").

The other consideration I have, is ..... when you run into a "pre-owned" rifle, there is usually some reason the previous owner sold it. Be careful.

Coffinmaker

treebeard · October 03, 2016, 05:30:22 PM

Thanks for the correction Coffinmaker-- I had read the 1.6 correctly but my fingers typed 1.5-- I'll write it off to a senior moment. I hope I
I read the caliper correctly! Maybe a good argument to buy new.

Coffinmaker · October 03, 2016, 10:02:35 PM

The internal changes were mainly concerned with safety. The old firing Pin Extension Rod was retained by a tiny little cross pin. In an out of battery discharge, it would sheer and the only thing to stop the exiting extension rod was the shooter's face. Uberti beefed up the pin.
Then Uberti got nervous about the beefed up cross pin and completely changed the extension rod retention to more emulate the original Winchester retention which used the Breach Block link pin and a rocker plate. Made it impossible for the extension rod to exit the rifle. Uberti also changed the geometry of the Hammer, so the extension rod couldn't (they hoped) exit with the hammer in the gun. Uberti also stopped supporting the "old" Breach blocks and extension rods retained by the little pins. You now have to replace the Breach Block, firing pin, return spring and extension rod as a complete "kit."

Yes. There are several reasons to shop for "new." You still need to be careful as there are some "new - Old Stock" guns still out there. You should really look for a rifle made well after 2008.

Coffinmaker

treebeard · October 04, 2016, 11:47:16 AM

Coffinmaker--Thanks for outlining the safety concerns on older 1866's. I printed out the Italian date codes so I can laminate them and
add this reference to my tool bag that I take to gun shows, etc.. I will be able to instantly look up the dates for post 2008 manufacture.

Mike · October 04, 2016, 12:54:43 PM

If you can find them, my 66 rifle is hidden.

treebeard · October 04, 2016, 02:54:23 PM

Mike-- if I could it would be fun to come to NZ and look for that hidden '66! As it is I will have to enjoy your beautiful country in the movies.

Mike · October 04, 2016, 07:24:45 PM

Worth a trip, south Island is great, i live on the coast in the Wellington area. We shoot BP and there is a CAS shoot every month.

See you then?

Mike · October 09, 2016, 12:34:14 PM

So how bad are these old gun?
With normal use, not competition. These gun should last a life time with out any need for parts.

Major 2 · October 09, 2016, 01:29:00 PM

This one with a [AE] 1979 date code was purchased new in box in 1980 by me.
Cal. 44/40 22 Inch Barrel.
After 8 years of mounted reenacting using trimmed & necked down 444 Marlin brass , about 40 grains 3FFF BP w/ cotton wad held with drop of Elmer's white glue....
it also saw several boxes of factory 44/40 in those years , as a shooter away from the events as well.

The bluing was worn and it was striped to white but aside from a bore brush and gun stripper flood cleaning it was never disassembled in those years.... I sold the gun to a fellow, in 1988 who to my knowledge , sparingly if ever shot it....
In 2007-8 almost 20 years later,, the guy sold it back to me.... pretty much had only seen the back of his closet ( safe ?)

It was clean, still with a bright bore and function fine quite smooth in fact , and the price was the same I sold it for.
and in the same gun canvas gun-sock.

It had come home, it was to be a KINGS Patent project, that never happened , in 2014 a friend asked to buy it ,I agreed
and again it left , the fellow was to use it for NCOWS ...
but 2 things happened ...He never came out and shot NCOWS and he never paid me

So I got it back ...and here it will stay ...I have shot it , it still is smooth and BOX Stock from 1979 ...
Now due to the parts issue , and I have other Henry's this one is not shot all that much ...

It's 37 years old .... earned a retirement , but will see an occasional 44/40 I suspect .

Mike · October 10, 2016, 02:18:24 AM

Major 2. Answered my question

in full and plus.
if it needs a new home with with a accasonal outing with BP

Mike · October 17, 2016, 11:28:35 PM

My 66 carbine is AI so 82, will trip the rifle next and see if I can find a date. Both get a healthy does of BP.

The Carbine has the shorter lifter block and feeds with out fault. My 73 originally a 38 now a 32 is a AC Short Block.

Long Knife Rich · November 05, 2016, 08:06:46 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on October 03, 2016, 10:26:43 AM
No ...... You want a Rifle with the 1.6inch Carrier Blocks. Just to "pile on" with Pettifogger, there are NO parts available for the the old
1.5inch carrier rifles. The dimensions of EVERYTHING are different.

Pettifogger also mentions numerous "internal" differences. Some enhancements were not so enhancing. Such as the "new and improved ladle").

The other consideration I have, is ..... when you run into a "pre-owned" rifle, there is usually some reason the previous owner sold it. Be careful.

Coffinmaker

There is some interesting information in this thread that I wasn't aware of. Does this apply to the replica Henry, and 1873 rifles also, or just the 1866's? I'm considering a Navy Arms Henry rifle and would like to avoid buying something that doesn't have parts availability.

Major 2 · November 06, 2016, 01:29:34 AM

Quote from: Long Knife Rich on November 05, 2016, 08:06:46 PM
There is some interesting information in this thread that I wasn't aware of. Does this apply to the replica Henry, and 1873 rifles also, or just the 1866's? I'm considering a Navy Arms Henry rifle and would like to avoid buying something that doesn't have parts availability.

short answer ...yes

Please reread reply #12 ...

Coffinmaker · November 12, 2016, 10:59:01 AM

Wonder if we could convince the Esteemed Mr. Imperato to manufacture an 1866?? It is after all, Winchester's "Henry Improved."

While I'm hallucinating, perhaps Miroku will release an 1866 we can afford. Before we're all too old to work the lever......

Maybe ....... Piggs can FLY too.

Coffinmaker

pistol1911 · November 25, 2016, 08:04:14 AM

This rifle was made in 1979.It has been a safe queen with only a couple of boxes of cowboy loads shot. I recently loaded some black powder loads 33 grains of ffg Goex 200 grain lead bullet. I fired 20 of these and actually felt some recoil. My concern is firing this old rifle with the small bolt pin. I have not broken the rifle down yet to check the pin but will do so. If it is not bent should I go ahead and replace it with a larger pin? I moved this post from the Powder room.

Cliff Fendley · November 25, 2016, 09:53:49 AM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on November 12, 2016, 10:59:01 AM
Wonder if we could convince the Esteemed Mr. Imperato to manufacture an 1866?? It is after all, Winchester's "Henry Improved."

While I'm hallucinating, perhaps Miroku will release an 1866 we can afford. Before we're all too old to work the lever......

Maybe ....... Piggs can FLY too.

Coffinmaker

I wish Mr. Imperato would manufacture an Improved Henry. I'd love to see that. Hopefully they get someone trained on the buffer too. I've been real disappointed in the last Henry's I've seen from them.