Two years later, I found one!

[Jake C]

Howdy all,

Way back when, I really started looking into GAF when I began to ask questions on here about a particularly interesting firearm, the British Snider. Ultimately, getting a Snider back then just didn't pan out. The money ended up going to other things, etc. Fast forward to today, when I went into my LGS to pickup my Uberti 1849 Pocket Revolver. While I was browsing ,guess what I came across?  a B-E-A-UTIFUL Mk. III Snider Carbine with a pretty decent bayonet added in, for the not terrible price of $695. The rear sight isn't attached but was also present, so some minor work will be needed, but for that price, I just had to get it. I put it in on Layaway and commenced to convincing my wife that it's a pretty gun that she'll enjoy looking at (she loves 'pretty' guns). I'll post pictures as soon as I have it paid off.

Now I do have a question for you fine folks. For the purposes of our sport, would shooting some cheap 'Snider Chow' (24 gauge plastic shotshell with BP, .60 cal. round ball, and BP lube) be acceptable? Sadly, there's no way I could reasonably afford to properly reload .577 Snider at this point in my life.

Anyways, thanks for letting me share my excitement here. Been wanting a Snider for a while, and finding a carbine is just icing on the cake! I'm as happy as a pig in mud 

[Niederlander]

Drydock will have to chime in on this one, but I don't know why you couldn't as long as it's safe.  (I had no idea that would work.  Interesting!)  Of course, you may be in for some ribbing about shooting space age ammunition.......................

[Jake C]

Drydock will have to chime in on this one, but I don't know why you couldn't as long as it's safe.  (I had no idea that would work.  Interesting!)  Of course, you may be in for some ribbing about shooting space age ammunition.......................

I can take the ribbing on the space age ammo  it's all in good fun. But yeah, you have to trim the shell down to two inches, but apparently it works really well otherwise. I believe Mike Beliveau had a video where he made traditional Snider cartridges and then one where he made cheaper 24 gauge ones. Turns out that the cheaper route also gave him better accuracy.

[Trailrider]

"A Snider squibbed in the forest,
Someone laughed and fled...
And the men of the First Shikari
Picked up their subaltern, dead,
w' a neat blue 'ole in 'is fore'ead,
And the back blown out of 'is 'ead!" - Rudyard Kipling

[Drydock]

Cheap Snider chow is perfectly acceptable.  If its safe and will get it on the line, its good!

[Silver Creek Slim]

Congrats.

Slim

[Pay Dirt Norvelle]

I Snider is next in line for me to purchase after my card gets over buying my Henry Big Boy that is.

[Jake C]

Two requests. Can someone help me post pictures, and can someone help me decipher some of the marks on the rifle? I think I've deciphered some more about this rifle, but I'd like to see what an expert has to say, if possible.

[Jake C]

Got the pictures figured out thanks to Pitspitr! Thanks again! I recognize most of the markings, but a few have me a bit stumped, if anyone is able/willing to help.

[pony express]

I can't help with the markings, but I can say-I LIKE IT!. I bet with standard ammo it packs a punch on both ends! Hopefully Rattlesnake Jack will be along shortly, he's our expert on these.

[Jake C]

I can't help with the markings, but I can say-I LIKE IT!. I bet with standard ammo it packs a punch on both ends! Hopefully Rattlesnake Jack will be along shortly, he's our expert on these.

Thank you kindly! I was as happy as could be when I found it. Still am, now that I think about it 

[RattlesnakeJack]

Jake:
As you may know, I am a regular shooter of Snider-Enfield rifles ....

What you appear to have there is a Mark III Cavalry carbine ... it is a very good thing that the rear sight is included, since you would have a devil of a time finding an original carbine sight, and to my knowledge nobody makes a reproduction.

As you may know, Mark III Sniders were late production, "made from scratch" (instead of being converted muzzleloaders) and thus have steel barrels (note the marking) ... rather than wrought iron barrels which is what the muzzle-loading Enfield rifles had ... and the stronger thumb-latch locking system you see here.

I'm not sure who has mated a bayonet with this carbine, because Cavalry carbines in fact never had bayonets - British cavalrymen were also armed with swords and/or lances and thus had no need of a bayonet!  Note that the bayonet does not actually even fit onto the barrel - it appears to be a standard Pattern 1853 socket bayonet for a 3-band "long rifle", which had a somewhat smaller muzzle diameter than the carbine.



Such a socket bayonet should slide all the way on - with the foresight base following the channel and then turn to the side (the sight base following the "dogleg") with the locking ring then securing it in place -



You will have less hassle ... and "look better" to boot ... if you use all-brass 24 ga. shotgun hulls rather than the plastic ones.  You can still load round ball with them.  While drawn brass cases for .577 Snider are difficult to find - and excessively expensive when you can locate them - the shotgun hulls are quite affordable.  To save the difficulty of cutting them to length, sizing and forming them, I would highly recommend that you buy them already trimmed, shortened and formed from X-Ring Services in Spokane, WA - Martyn Robinson (the owner) is a very nice chap who regularly shoots Sniders (and Martinis, and other such great firearms) - and his prices are reasonable, at US$47.50 for a box of 25 cases.



Check him out here - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/16005/577450-MH-and-577-Snider-Unprimed-Cases

...or here - https://www.facebook.com/martyn.robinson.7165

Look forward to having someone else shooting a Snider ... 

[Jake C]

Jake:
As you may know, I am a regular shooter of Snider-Enfield rifles ....

What you appear to have there is a Mark III Cavalry carbine ... it is a very good thing that the rear sight is included, since you would have a devil of a time finding an original carbine sight, and to my knowledge nobody makes a reproduction.

As you may know, Mark III Sniders were late production, "made from scratch" (instead of being converted muzzleloaders) and thus have steel barrels (note the marking) ... rather than wrought iron barrels which is what the muzzle-loading Enfield rifles had ... and the stronger thumb-latch locking system you see here.

I'm not sure who has mated a bayonet with this carbine, because Cavalry carbines in fact never had bayonets - British cavalrymen were also armed with swords and/or lances and thus had no need of a bayonet!  Note that the bayonet does not actually even fit onto the barrel - it appears to be a standard Pattern 1853 socket bayonet for a 3-band "long rifle", which had a somewhat smaller muzzle diameter than the carbine.



Such a socket bayonet should slide all the way on - with the foresight base following the channel and then turn to the side (the sight base following the "dogleg") with the locking ring then securing it in place -



You will have less hassle ... and "look better" to boot ... if you use all-brass 24 ga. shotgun hulls rather than the plastic ones.  You can still load round ball with them.  While drawn brass cases for .577 Snider are difficult to find - and excessively expensive when you can locate them - the shotgun hulls are quite affordable.  To save the difficulty of cutting them to length, sizing and forming them, I would highly recommend that you buy them already trimmed, shortened and formed from X-Ring Services in Spokane, WA - Martyn Robinson (the owner) is a very nice chap who regularly shoots Sniders (and Martinis, and other such great firearms) - and his prices are reasonable, at US$47.50 for a box of 25 cases.



Check him out here - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/16005/577450-MH-and-577-Snider-Unprimed-Cases

...or here - https://www.facebook.com/martyn.robinson.7165

Look forward to having someone else shooting a Snider ... 

Jack, you are a saint, thank you. Thank you for the info on the bayonet. I had thought that it was odd for a cavalry weapon to have one, but oh well. I can use the bayonet in a display, or use it as an excuse to find a matching rifle 

I'll need to grab some of the preformed brass, and I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. I'm very excited to take this carbine home and shoot it.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Yes ... do stay on the lookout for a rifle for your bayonet!  

(Knowing how rare it is to find a cavalry carbine which still has the two-piece rod in place in the butt, I bought my rod when I got a chance at a nice original ... at least two years before finding a good cavalry carbine to put it in!)

Just keep in mind that the rifle for that bayonet is the 3-band "long rifle", as shown.  For the 2-band "short rifle ... such as I am holding in the photo on the right, above ... you would need the impressive Pattern 1856 "Yataghan" sword bayonet (which gives the same "reach" as the socket bayonet mounted on a 3-band rifle) -



The Snider was the quintessential 19th Century cartridge rifle of the Dominion of Canada - our Militia was first armed with them in 1867 (the year of Confederation - i.e. when the country was formed from various British North American colonies) but, although soon supplanted by the Martini-Henry in most of the British Empire, it remained our primary issue military rifle until the latter half of the 1890's. Because there were literally tens of thousands of Snider-Enfield rifles and carbines in Canada (... and because they were kept in service until long after there was any real chance of disposing of them as surplus ...) they are quite easily found up here ...

[Jake C]

Took the Snider to the range on my lunch break today, along with my Uberti 1860 conversion in modern .44 Colt. Ran 10 rounds (trimmed down 24 gauge shell, 70 grains of 2F Olde Eynesford, .58 roundball) through the Snider, and WOW! I can't imagine shooting it with the minie ball. Pony Express, you were right. It packs a punch on both ends of the rifle. Love it though. Shoots accurately at short range (need to test it at a distance), so it looks like I did well enough with re-affixing the sights. I am very happy with the Snider.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Jake, you might want to consider a reduced load (say only 50 grains or so, topped with a cream of wheat or cornmeal filler) for that little carbine.  Although Britain never did adopt a "carbine load" in .577 Snider, the recoil was pretty significant with the "shorties" ... as you have discovered!  (The heavier 3-band and 2-band rifles aren't so bad ....)
   
On the other hand, when Britain switched to the .577/.450 Martini-Henry (same bullet weight of 480 grains, but with a powder charge increased to 85 grains) they did not at first adopt a reduced carbine loading for the cartridge .... but found they actually had to delay issuing the lighter carbines for quite some time, until a less punishing carbine load could be issued with them!  Recoil with M-H carbines was entirely unacceptable, otherwise ....

[Jake C]

Jake, you might want to consider a reduced load (say only 50 grains or so, topped with a cream of wheat or cornmeal filler) for that little carbine.  Although Britain never did adopt a "carbine load" in .577 Snider, the recoil was pretty significant with the "shorties" ... as you have discovered!  (The heavier 4-band and 2-band rifles aren't so bad ....)
   
On the other hand, when Britain switched to the .577/.450 Martini-Henry (same bullet weight of 480 grains, but with a powder charge increased to 85 grains) they did not at first adopt a reduced carbine loading for the cartridge .... but found they actually had to delay issuing the lighter carbines for quite some time, until a less punishing carbine load could be issued with them!  Recoil with M-H carbines was entirely unacceptable, otherwise ....

That's what I was discussing with my wife. I'm going to make a few rounds and reduce the charge by 5-grain intervals until I find one I like, though I believe that you're right; I'd bet money that 50 grains will be the magic number. Might also add a leather pad over butt-plate, dress it up and make it (the leather pad/stock cover, not the butt-plate) look vaguely Native American. I figure you might have seen that with civilian militia in Canada (I am, of course, no expert, so please tell me if I'm incorrect or way off).

RattlesnakeJack, I can absolutely believe that. I like to think that I'm no wimp in regards to recoil, but I am cringing at the thought of firing that .577/.450 load out of a carbine. Ouch!

[Pitspitr]

firing that .577/.450 load out of a carbine. Ouch!

Grant wasn't that what Guns Garrett used at Garnett one year? He abused his shoulder so much that he was unable to finish the match

[RattlesnakeJack]

Grant wasn't that what Guns Garrett used at Garnett one year? He abused his shoulder so much that he was unable to finish the match

Exactly!  I wasn't in attendance the first year he used his Martini carbine (2012, I gather) but understand it really beat him up.  I advised him to download his cartridges, but he either forgot or didn't reduce the charge enough, because they were still rocking him back a lot the following year, when I was there ...



I recall giving him some of my reduced loads that second year and he found them more pleasant.  Another thing we discovered then was that his carbine appears to be a copy (Afghan or whatever) rather than a British-made Martini-Henry ... and I think his bore diameter may be a bit undersized, if I recall correctly ...

Mind you, as you know a Martini-Henry tends to rock the shooter back just a bit, regardless -  -

[Pitspitr]

Mind you, as you know a Martini-Henry tends to rock the shooter back just a bit, regardless -  -

And they're pretty unpleasant in a handgun too.