Colt Richards-Mason Bolt Timing

[Crow Choker]

OK, here's one for all you gunsmiths, tinkerers, enthusiasts, shooters, knowledgeables, et al, et al. Not to long ago I bought a Uberti 60' Army framed Richards-Mason in 38 Special, 5 1/2" barrel from a Taylor Firearms dealer. Nice gun, all lines, fit, finish, bluing, etc, were great. I didn't fire it until I cast and loaded some DD Snakebites over FFF Goex. Rounds were accurate and as always, a hoot to shoot. Before I had 100 rounds through the gun, I noticed on the cylinder some nasty marks on the cylinder, on the outer edges of the cylinder bolt leads. On all six leads, they were on the front side (towards the barrel) and appeared as if the bolt was not coming into the leads in the center.

The timing of the action was good, the bolt left leg is coming off of the hammer cam, allowing the bolt to snap up when needed, not to soon or late.. I had previously did a little initial stoning of the innards, just taking off any noticeable burrs and roughness. I did do the 'Pettifogger' arbor check (ie, sticking the arbor in the arbor hole of the barrel assembly and twisting) and at that time it was a perfect mate. Figured I had a Uberti with a rare perfect arbor fit. Then I read on the COLT  FIREARMS section here on CAS CITY of a post titled "Nipples for 2nd Generation Colt 1851 Navy" of the problems a member was having with the nipples on his '51. One of the responses by Coffinmaker, also 2nd by Pettifogger and 45 Dragoon was that some of the newer Uberti firearms were giving a false indication of the arbor length by using Pettifoggers 'stick and twist' method. Most of this starts with Coffinmakers reply #10 and following. I'd quote it here, but that's beyond my capability here, can't figure out how to go to another site and attach a quote without losing the whole post here. Been there, done that.

Anyway, did the Pettifogger/Coffinmaker check and sure enough, my arbor wasn't bottoming out due to roughness in the arbor hole and maybe a few on it. Polished things up and rechecked. Arbor bottomed out and twisted a lot easier. Sure enough, the frame/ barrel assembly didn't meet. Had some 3/8" dia brass washers and played around and found that by sticking two of them (they were thin ones) down the arbor hole I got a good meeting of the two assembly's. Was even able to put the wedge back in giving it a smart whack. The alignment was such no damage could be incurred by inserting the wedge. Checked the barrel/cylinder gap before and after putting in the wedge, both the same gap, approx. .002 plus a tad. Everything else checked out, no grittiness when working the action, timing seemed ok, all the rounds I did fire went bang when pulling the trigger. The only glitch was the marks on the cylinder bolt leads.

I put blue Dyken on the bolt and around the cylinder, put it back together, worked the action, took the Colt apart, and viewed the results. The Dyken was worn off of the forward edges of the leads (toward the barrel). The bolt on the forward portion of the area that locks into the cylinder notches, had the Dyken worn off on the corners. Appeared to be two raised areas on both forward corners(left and right) that had high spots. Now this would tell anyone with any gunsmithing skills and told me that that could be a possibility for the reason for the marking on the cylinder. Tells me that these high areas are preventing the bolt from following and going into the center of the leads, causing the rubbing on the edge of the leads. I could be wrong, but at least that what appears. Any of you have any other possibilities or have experienced or seen this. It tells me to stone and smooth the front of the bolt where the Dyken was rubbed off, BUT, I'm a reader and studier of anything I do, gunsmithing wise included.

  I've read a lot over the years by authors such as  Nonte, Chicone, Pettifogger, posts here and other places and recently borrowed a Kuhnhausen book on Colts from a friend and after reading his do's and don'ts about the timing of the cylinder and bolt, it's got me 'gun shy'. Kuhnhausen give specific ways to fit a bolt and it didn't give much leeway in taking anything off the sides of the bolts, esp the right side. Wondering, can I take a wee bit off the front left corner of the bolt where it enters cylinder lead without compromising tight lockup with the cylinder? Just by looking at the left front where the Dyken was rubbed off shows a high mark that may be causing the unwanted, misplaced rubbing. What say any of ya. Any thoughts, cures, or just a hello would be appreciated. Man, I need to figure out how to say what I want without being so windy. Oh well, haven't been many new postings on this forum, gives ya all something to read. Take care all. CC

[45 Dragoon]

CC,
You are right in your thinking. The "tight fit " is retained if you leave the width of the bolt head alone. Remove the material where the bolt is contacting the cylinder until you get it in the approach. Try to keep the surface angles the same.  I would suggest using a vice and a file as stones change with each pass (so will the work surface). Mr. Jim Martin got me away from stones a long time ago. If you'll go slow and follow the steps in the Kuhnhausen book and keep the surface  angles your bolt has, you should be fine.
One important thing to remember is keeping the right side bolt face perpendicular to the lock notch and the top edge should be sharp with just the slightest "break " (so as not to scratch the cylinder/approach).

You said the bolt dropped when it should which should be one bolt width before the notch (drag a finger on the cylinder). This will keep the bolt from moving material on the edge of the notch. You can drop it slightly earlier if you're gonna run it like an "outlaw " !!!  

Also, (sorry, there's so much you can do here) make sure the bolt spring tension isn't excessive.  You only need 3-4 lbs. ,  tension. This will help keep the bolt from digging a trench in your cyl.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Crow Choker]

Thanks for the input "45".  Your advice on using files vs stones will be taken. I have noticed the tendency of a stone in the past especially when not working on a flat surface to take different angles when using. The rounded 'top' surface of a revolver bolt I can see as you pointed out would be susceptible. Yes, the bolt 'drops' approx. 'one bolt notch' before lockup, so I assume that isn't any cause for the bolt dragging on the outside corner of the lead.

Bolt tension-how in the world do you check that? Never crossed my mind that would be a factor. Always pretty much left them alone except to take the rough edges off the ends and smooth up the area of the spring where it contacts the bolt. In reference to the arbor length, some time ago after reading Pettifoggers way of fixing that, I ordered some of the Dillon brass 'buttons', plan to tackle the short arbor issue on all my percussion and conversion/open type Colts that need it, good thing I ordered a dozen. Have a good day, thank you for the info! Choker of Crows

PS: Pettifogger-Received a new bolt for my Open Top from Cimarron, legs of equal length (dimensions) as on my Richards II. The bolt fits all the bolt notches on the cylinder, all I should need to do is polish up a little with some 600 grit and crocus cloth, maybe a touch on the sharp edges with a stone, reassemble, and see how it works. Thanks again for your help. CC

[45 Dragoon]

CC,
  The tension in the bolt spring  (the bolt half of the bolt/trig.return spring) can be adjusted slightly  to increase/decrease  (a thin washer under the spring will give you the ability to use even less "adjusting ") the force on the bolt. They typically have 7-9 lbs when 3-4 is perfect.  If you have a Ruger S.A., remove the cylinder and check the bolt tension with your finger. That is what you're looking for. If you have a trigger pull scale, use it on the bolt head and see what it says. It's tricky but you can do it.

I'm sure a lot of folks use the brass button fix and there's  nothing wrong with that (thank you Mr. Pettifogger!) but I prefer to "raise the bottom of the hole" ,with steel shims , to meet the arbor.  The main reason is because I use a large set screw as an adjustable forward bearing for the wedge to contact  (it is installed and accessed through the end of the arbor) which the "button " fix would interfere with. This setup allows you use the same wedge for the life of the arm. It also allows you to choose wedge placement  (more in, less in) if it interferes with holstering. If one uses a Walker in the right holster, he may want the wedge in almost all the way so it won't catch the outside edge of  it. Likewise with any other open tops in a left holster.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Coffinmaker]

Wheeeeee!!!  OIK!!!  My Turn!! My turn!! My Turn!!
I was just a tad confused at first with the terms used to describe the bolt.  Front, Back, Sides, that stuff.  My first suggestion is to take
the Uberti Trigger/Bolt spring out and put it somewhere safe.  Like a trash can.  This is only done AFTER you have acquired a Brandy
New Pietta trigger/bolt spring and fitted it.  This will save ya a lot of fooling around.
Next, you need a very FLAT surface.  Clean-up the frame side of the bolt with some 400 wet/dry.  Rub the bolt side on the abrasive, DO
NOT rub the abrasive on the bolt.  Then polish that same surface with 1000 grit.  Check the bolt fit in the cylinder slots.  The other side of the bolt (Trailing side) needs the top edge very lightly broken to "ease" the bolt off the lead and into the slot.  Then match the
radius of the bolt head (curved part) to the shape of the lead.  It sounds like your bolt has been contoured too wide and the ends need
to be reduced to allow the bolt to move evenly thru the lead.  After everything fits, polish the leading edge (tall side) with 1000 grit.  DO
NOT remove metal.  Just polish it.
When you view bolt rise between the cylinder and the water table, the bolt should rise with it's FULL width in the lead. 
Since you have been playing with it, with an OEM Trigger/Bolt spring, inspect the back edge of the slot to see if it has been peen'd into
the slot slightly.  Fix that.

Coffinmaker

[Crow Choker]

Thank ya kindly Coffinmaker. What advantage is the Pietta bolt over the Uberti? Better metal, contours, overall fit??? How do the Pietta bolt legs match up to everything else in the timing train. Will the left leg that engages the hammer cam fit. I'm not questioning your knowledge or expertise, but just wondering even though Uberti and Pietta guns are Colt copies, they are different companies, do their internals mix match? A curious mind is just curious. Will check on the conditions you mentioned. I do polish parts as you suggested, use 320, 400, 600 grit cloth as needed, followed up with Crocus cloth (don't know  what grit that is rated at, but have always had happy results with it). Use some hard Arkansas stones when/where needed. 

[Coffinmaker]

No  no  no  NO!!
Not the Bolt.  The Pietta BOLT will not work in a Uberti.  The Trigger/Bolt SPRING.  Just the SPRING!!  The Pietta trigger/bolt spring
is lighter than the Uberti SPRING while still providing a good crisp feel to the action.  It will not tend to "drive" the bolt up with a
heavy impact on the cylinder leads.

I don't like Crocus Cloth.  I especially do not like it when I am trying to make something FLAT.  Of course, if your going to make something flat, like the sides of the hammer, or the frame side of the bolt, or the frame side of the hand, you MUST have a FLAT reference surface.
I use a diamond lapping plate.  Or, I have a surplus flat ground Table Saw wing.  Or I have a surface ground special block of granite.
I spray the back of the appropriate grit wet/dry with aerosol 3M contact cement (DO NOT SPRAY BOTH SURFACES), stick it down and
use it until it dulls then change it out.

Coffinmaker

[Crow Choker]

No  no  no  NO!!
Not the Bolt.  

Gee Coffinmaker, didn't mean to get ya all riled up! LOL
I didn't think ya could put/exchange parts from Pietta firearms in Uberti's and vice versa, but I thought "He's the man", but that's also why I questioned it. Sort of like putting Ford motor parts in a Chevy and vice versa. Anyway, I'll have to look into the spring exchange. I followed 45 Dragoon's suggestion and took the cylinder out of my New Model Ruger Vaquero and compared the bolt tension with the Richards/Mason Colt. The Ruger did have less tension, ie pushed down a lot easier.

Added late: I've always had good results with Crocus cloth, seems after using it some, it develops a nice smooth surface on the metal, free of any marks left from previous grits. I do have some superfine 800+ stuff I got from Brownell's years ago. Have to look it up and maybe press it into service again. I use a heavy flat piece of marble tile for a flat surface to lay the grit cloth on when polishing, sometimes use a small piece of hardwood with a 3x6" piece of thin smooth leather attached if I want a soft surface. Both work for whatever application I need.

I think you were right about the bolts dimensions. Previously fitting the bolt into the cylinder bolt holes with the cylinder removed from the frame, they fit fine. Using calipers, measurering the bolt dimensions and the cylinder cutouts, it appeared all was ok. This afternoon, with the gun parts installed, working the action, it appeared that the forward end of the bolt, by the bolt shelf may be having problems as you suggested not doing as designed. I got busy later with yard and vehicle oil change so haven't been able to pursue any more work on the gun. BUT, pull yer hat down, keep yer suspenders tight, and yer boots on, I'll be sweatin over it maybe tomorrow AM early and will report on any insights!!!! Thanks for all yer input, yer a pillar of our society.  

[Fox Creek Kid]

Kuhnhausen is referring to Colt OEM bolts IMO which are generally made to a higher spec than Italian stuff. If you send a Colt back to the factory for this work they'll just drop in a QUALITY OEM bolt which requires far less work to make fit. Italian stuff requires more......"ingenuity".

[Crow Choker]

To the curious of mind and to the kind gents who have given me some insight on my Colt problem, I think I've rectified my problem. I
haven't ordered a new Pietta bolt spring (yet) as Mr. Coffinmaker advised, think I will just to do so and ya never know, might need it. I did put a washer under the spring as advised by 45 Dragoon to lessen the tension and used a pillar file to remove a little off of the front of the bolt (by the shelf), polished it, worked the left front corner of the bolt just a tad so it would hit the leads and drop into the bolt slots on the cylinder, and polished/stoned areas that needed or have metal-metal contact. I Dyken blued the parts in question, put it back together, worked the action and WaaLaaaa, seemed to be working as designed. Disassembled, cleaned Dyken off, reassembled,  greased/oiled, worked the action, WaaLaaaa again, wiped it down, and put it in my safe for a shootin day. Do plan to do a Pettifogger arbor job on it (as I plan to do on all my Colts), but for now just dropped a couple of thin brass washers into the hole, went together fine. Thanks all for your input, talked with Rifle today and he gave his 2 cents on it also. I'm a happy Colt-ta-teer! (What kind of word is that?) 

[45 Dragoon]

Nice job cc.
If you talk to Rifle again, give him a howdy for me please. We've had good "how to" discussions in other forums.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Crow Choker]

Will do Mike, Rifle asked about a lot of the CAS City members/posters, if you/they were still on CAS. Advised Rifle I'd check back in with him some day, he advised sounds like a plan. Rifle said he missed the forum and all the posting.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Wow!  Great information here that I will try to remember when I get my next gun.

[Coffinmaker]

I would suppose some folks get tired of me harping on the "Same Old Thing."  But ...... here it is again.  Before .... BEFORE .... you do anything else with ANY Uberti built Open Top type gun ....... TA DA ..... you ABSOLUTELY MUST correct the Barrel to Arbor fit.  If that isn't done, NOTHING else will work as it is suppose to.  Then you correct the Bolt to Cylinder fit.  Then you put the OEM springs some place safe.  Like a trash can.  Put a nice after-market Main Spring in and I strongly suggest a Pietta trigger./bolt spring.

More Uberti Open Top guns have been brought to me ..... ruined ..... by running them uncorrected with OEM Springs.  Please understand, I don't personally like Ubertis'.  Pretty on the outside and seriously in NEED on the inside.  BUTT!!  they can be made to run and run so so SWEET when properly prepped.

Coffinmaker

[Abilene]

I would suppose some folks get tired of me harping on the "Same Old Thing."  But ...... here it is again.  Before .... BEFORE .... you do anything else with ANY Uberti built Open Top type gun ....... TA DA ..... you ABSOLUTELY MUST correct the Barrel to Arbor fit.  If that isn't done, NOTHING else will work as it is suppose to...

And, as on a previous topic, I will state the "ABSOLUTELY MUST" is too strong of a recommendation, in my experience.  My two sets of '51 R-M's ran fine with nothing but a spring kit for close to 15 years.  BP and smokeless, between 2500 and 3500 rounds per gun, and a number of clean matches (and NOT big/close targets, either).  Recently I addressed the Arbor fit with the "easiest" fix, dropping a #10 stainless split washer down the arbor hole in the barrel (this is also the fix where you keep losing the washer when disassembling the gun because you forget it is in there.  I bought a bag of them  ).  And it did cause the wedges which were pretty loose in the slots to firm up.  If you are making a competition gun that you want to be as good as possible, then yes address the arbor fit, maybe switch to coil hand spring, etc.  But I would NOT say that the gun is useless without doing that arbor fit.

[45 Dragoon]

Abilene,
You may be right unless you use full power loads. It will not last if you use full power loads! That being said, you won't (for sure) have the same revolver without the " fix" and I'm not a fan of a "split washer" to "temporarily"  assume a fixed open top. The thickness of the shim/shims isn't the same from revolver to revolver (unless the parameters are close to a joke). Why a "split washer" ? If the "spring"  of the split keeps you " in check" that's waaaaay ify at best!!  Just drop a spring  in the arbor hole if that's the case! Lol!! Don't mean to be flippant but .  .  .  . why not do it right?

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Coffinmaker]

OK.  Here I go ........ AGAIN.
Abilene, your basing your experience on a couple of pair of guns that worked OK as is out of the box.  Because you didn't know what to look for.  The Dragoon and I aren't talking about one or two guns that were "wrong."  We are talking about ALL OF THEM from Uberti.  I don't care if we discuss Percussion guns, Conversion Guns, Open Tops, .... It just doesn't matter.  The guns come out of Uberti WRONG.
ALL OF THEM.  Often the gun seems OK because there are burrs in the barrel receptacle and on the arbor itself that prevent the the barrel from seating on the arbor.  People actually have to force them together.  Then, when the wedge is seated, it closes the barrel to cylinder gap until the barrel drags on the cylinder face.  Those folks have to tap the wedge back out until the gun will turn.  There is a litany of problems.  Most of the time, you can't even check the fit until the receptacle and arbor are de-burred and polished.

Years ago I worked out a "quick fix" for those who didn't have access to a Gunplumber who knew how to work on Open Tops.  Drop in a 10mm split washer.  90% of the time it worked fine.  Perhaps not absolutely perfect but close enough for the gun to run correctly.  YOU found out on YOUR guns, the barrel to arbor fit was incorrect.  Had you used a feeler gage at the barrel/cylinder, you would have sen the change there as well.  A permanent fix should be done so you don't have to remember the split washer.  the fix at the arbor is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the correct operation of the gun.  I have never said an Open Top was useless without the fix.  I have said, unless you fix the arbor/barrel fit first, you'll be chasing your tail trying to tune them.  Barrel to cylinder gap will be wrong, head space will be wrong, end shake will be wrong, alignment of the bolt into the cylinder will be wrong.  YOUR guns have been slowly beating themselves together for years.  That's why your wedges went loose.

I've lost count of the number of Open Top guns I received that were ruined (I said that before didn't I??).  Folks would take a file to the barrel to open the cylinder gap so the gun would run.  Fix the barrel/arbor fit and the gap was suddenly huge and out of square.  file the gas ring so the cylinder would turn with the wedge in, then the end shake and head space went wonky.  I could go on and on.

I invite anyone to ask the "Other Mike" or I how many Uberti guns we have found with correct barrel to arbor fit.  We have no need to misrepresent our findings.  The results are obvious to anyone we have worked for.  I never needed to "pad" my bottom line with unnecessary work on clients' guns.  I had enough work that I had a waiting list.  SO:

Telling people that "ABSOLUTELY MUST" is too strong a recommendation is very misleading.  those folks are sitting there with a brand new gun that doesn't work as advertised.  They need a place to start.  Your comment of "in my experience" is entirely misleading.  You have insufficient experience.  When your experience is up in the hundreds of guns, we can talk.

Coffinmaker

[45 Dragoon]

Yap, CM is right.

I have never had an Uberti with even a close to a correct arbor fit.  Pietta (as most know) took on the arbor length "challenge" and fixed their offerings and it is (as CM notes in his posts) much easier to "dial in" your barrel/clearance.
Another difference not talked about is the front bearing surface in the wedge opening cut in the arbor. The Pietta has a fairly small area left by the procedure used to cut the slot. This is good thing. The Uberti has a tapered surface that offers a mostly "full width" contact area. This is not a good thing. Apparently, Uberti was trying to out smart  Colts design as the originals had straight cut through the arbor which allows the tapered wedge to contact it at one point.
 The wedge is what gives the setup a "triangulation"  between the barrel assy and the frame. The two rear points of the triangle are the right and left sides of the wedge cut in the barrel (the wedge cut through the barrel assy is straight through).  The front (3rd ) point of the triangle is the contact area in the arbor cut.  The Colt allows a single point of contact (the left most corner of the arbor cut). The Pietta offers a similar contact point though it's more centrally located due to the procedure for the cut. The Uberti on the other hand with its large  and possibly full contact area allows for the least "holding" ability for a "triangulation" setup. In fact, the larger contact area promotes a sliding/loosening situation to exist.
 When I install the set screw in the end of the arbor to give an adjustable front bearing for the wedge, it effectively "fixes" the Ubertis large contact area. So, now you know one more thing about Uberti's that is a "problem" ( probably again, more "load size" sensitive) that could/should have a correction made.

Ok .  .  .  .  . I'm tired too .  .  .  .   ( lol!!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Crow Choker]

Interestin reads since the Gent from Virginia posted. My several cents is everybody's right and no one is wrong. My biggest problem with the RM that I posted originally about was not the arbor length (yep that had to be corrected), but the problem with the bolt peening the edge of the cylinder bolt lead. Two of the three Colt open top style cartridge pistols I have, had poor timing/internal parts issues and needed arbor attention. The Open Top had two short of a bolt and the RM had the poor bolt head configuration. My Richards II had no timing OR arbor issues, it has not been a problem child. A Colt Transition Dragoon I purchased not to long ago had no arbor issue. I agree with Abilene in that not all Uberti Colts need attention, not going to say most don't. CM and 45 Dragoon, you guys along with Pettifogger have seen and worked on more than I ever will and I believe what you say about most Uberti's, but I do have Uberti's that have good factory arbor fit and/or timing. I have though had to correct the arbor fit on the rest of them.  I'll give Uberti higher marks though of what I've seen of Pietta's in my little part of the world in that the Uberti's seem to have a higher quality of external fit and finish. May be wrong on that aspect, but what Pietta's I've seen over the years, low marks for wood to metal and metal to metal fit.

Something I can't figure out is of the six percussion Colt's I have, not a one has the bolt/timing issue's I had with the two open top cartridge style revolvers. Of the six, not a one has had the bolt peening the 'be-jebbers' out of the cylinder. All have perfect timing and needed no attention other than some stoning to deburr and slick things up. All when cocking the hammer have the bolt come up and hit the cylinder lead at the right time and drop into the cylinder bolt cutout with perfection. No drag marks on the cylinder ahead of the leads or cylinder peening. I wonder, being Uberti supposedly slightly enlarged the dimensions of their Conversion/Open Top revolvers over the original frame sized percussion models, if they (Uberti) didn't engineer the internals to compensate. A lot of what I've read from owners of the cartridge open top models has to do with poor timing and cylinder/bolt problems. I will admit though of my arbor fixes, I haven't completed the Pettifogger Dillion button fix yet, but did so using various thicknesses of brass washers, which has worked. I have a dozen Dillion buttons on hand to do a 'fix right' job, hope to get at it when the weather warms, but the washers have worked and corrected the guns with poor arbor fit.

[Coffinmaker]

I will "soften" my position a little bit.  Not much, but a little.  Bring a magnifying glass  .   Obviously, neither the "other" Mike nor I have seen ALL the Open Top design guns to come out of Uberti.  There is also the possibility, those who seek out our particular skills are in need.  There may be some who have guns that are OK.  There are also a bunch of folks who don't know they need help and those who really don't care.

If all a person is going to do is occasionally go out and roll a few cans, pop the odd plastic bottle or, discover that don't really like it that they "have" to clean it and just stick it up on the wall, precisely setting the gun up may not matter.  My skills are probably wasted on those folks.  HOWEVER!!:

If the gun is going to play CAS on a regular basis, it needs to be gone thru and correctly set-up.  If not set up, it's going to slowly beat itself into junque.  Then the shooter is going to bad-mouth how bad Open Top Guns are and how fragile they are and THAT is bunk.  My Open Tops were my Main Match guns, at least 3 times a month, for over 10 years.  Not to mention at least three days a week at the range in practice.  No hiccups, no glitches, no fail to fire, nada problemo.  They ALL need to be checked.  They may NOT need extensive work.  However, I haven't been presented with Uberti Open Top design guns that didn't need a LOT of work.  I also include a literal PILE of second generation Colt percussion guns.  For course, then I switched from suppository guns to Cap Guns.  Brand new things to fix.

I'm a retired Gunplumber.  Every CAS gun I see, new, in the box, I see as needing something.  If your going to run ANYTHING CAS hard, they need to be set-up properly.  Or ..... they break.  Once they break, my bottom line gets even fatter.  The different manufacturers have slightly different problems.  Uberti has KRAP for barrel to arbor fit.  Pietta has KRAP for bolt to cylinder fit.  Then we get into the litany of what needs to be done to run the guns CAS hard.  SO:

Uberti Open Top guns ABSOLUTELY MUST be checked for barrel to arbor fit and fixed if your going to run them CAS hard.  Pietta guns need the bolt fit to the cylinder about 30 seconds after they come out of the box.  Then we can get into what it takes to make them RUN.
I personally shoot Gunfighter is CAS.  I shoot Gunfighter with Percussion Cap Guns.  My Cap Guns ABSOLUTELY MUST be DEAD RELIABLE cause I don't have a free hand to problems.  I treat every gun I work on as if I were going to shoot a CAS match Gunfighter with it.

I'm knit picky.  I'm opinionated.  I don't take prisoners.  When I work on a gun for someone, I ABSOLUTELY KNOW WHAT I'M DOING.  If my opinionated self steps on someones toes ..... well OOPS.  But no apologies.  I am very good at what I do.

Coffinmaker