.44 Special, Colt, and Russian

[Rebel Dave]

  ::)So...... Last night I did a search on this forum, reading everything I could find on the above calibres.

I have a 72 open top in 44 Special cal , 5 1/2 bbl. I do not want to hammer it to death, so I was looking at what Else I could shoot in it , and came to the confusion that I can shoot .44 Colt, and .44 Russian, is that correct. I have a bunch of new star line .44 Spec brass, and they go in all cylinders with out touching the throats, buy a good distance, and they have not been sized, they are virgin. Is this a good indicator, for this cylinder, that I can shoot all three calibres,???. Black powder will  be used mostly.
I have allready done all the arbor fitting, and tuning on this thing, awhile ago.

Can I shorten the .44 Spec brass to .44 Colt, ??. What dies do I need for .44 Colt,??.

Also i have a couple RM conversions, that are marked .38 colt, and S&W spec. Which I am going to shoot the holy black in, in .38 Special or . 38 Colt.
Thanks
Rebel Dave

[Abilene]

Howdy Rebel Dave.  Yes, you can shoot .44 Russian, Colt, and Special in that cylinder.  And yes, you can cut down .44 Spcl brass to make .44 Colt, but the resulting case mouth might be thicker brass than brass made as .44 Colt.  I'm not sure about that.  You can use .44 Spcl dies for .44 Colt I think but they might not be adjustable enough for .44 Russian.  Brass made as .44 Colt will have a smaller diameter rim and need a different shell plate, but that would not matter if you cut down Spcl brass. 

.44 Colt brass is only 1/16" shorter than .44 Spcl.  I'd think you might just load the Spcl at the lower end of the charts and be good.  And if you are loading BP, that is easier on the gun than smokeless anyway, and it is easy to add a bit of filler to that if you want to download it.

[Major 2]

What Abilene said   

except "You can use .44 Spcl dies for .44 Colt"   dies yes.... shell case holder no
the 44 Colt has smaller rim and does not center well with 44 Special case holder.

 

[Crow Choker]

Rebel Dave: As stated by others, yep-you can load 44 Rus, Colt, and Specials in dies slated for 44 Spec. Dies slated for 44 Mag/Spec I'm not sure. You may be able to turn the expander and seater stems down far enough for expanding and seating the two shorter case calibers. A call to die manufacturers would tell you. My RCBS carbide Cowboy Die set is labeled 44Russ and Special. I load both 44 Colt and Spec with no problem, but bought a separate bullet seating die when I purchased a 44 Mag Ruger.

As far as shell holders, my Starline brass for 44 Spec measures 0.508 at the rim and the 44 Colt, 0.482--only 0.026 difference, but enough to give the 44 Colt some sloppiness using 44 Spec shell holder, a RCBS #18. For 44 Colt I use a Lee #9 which fits real nice and found that a RCBS #3 will also work. Some time ago I read that shell holders for 41 Mag revolver works for 44 Colt. Nope, it's to tight, won't allow ya to stick the rim in. If you use a Lee Auto hand primer, the Lee #9 shell holder works for 44 Colt---the Lee #11 is what I use for 44 Specials. I don't load 44 Russian so I've never looked to see what they take, but I believe they take the same as 44 Spec/Magnum.

I've been shooting and reloading 44 Colt and Specials in a Uberti Open Top and Richards II for around nine years now. Started out shooting smokeless only in the 44 Spec's and black powder only in the 44 Colt's. Did this because I like shooting both types of powders and for cartridge identification. Kept the smokeless on the mild side so as not to 'hammer' the pistols to death. Used mostly Trailboss, Red Dot, and Titegroup. Kept muzzle velocity under 1000fps, mostly in the 850 or so range. Used mostly Lee 200 grain cast bullets of wheel weight hardness, sometimes soft lead. Bought a DD Mav Dutchman 200 grain mold using soft lead for the balck powder loads. Started out using around 25.0 grains of FFF, but switched to using FF (Goex) after reading some posts on this forum by others who reported better results with the FF (Fox Creek Kid was one). Happy with the FF, it is supposed to be a little easier on the gun. Over the last five years or so, all I shoot in both guns is 44 Colts any more. I did load up some 44 Specials with black a while back, but haven't got around to shooting them. I shoot most of my Specials anymore in a Ruger Super Blkhawk.

In both of my Colts, the 44 Colt rims fit fine in the Colt cylinders. Uberti  made the cylinders to accommodate using 44 Colt cartridges. As previously posted, you can take 44 Specials and shorten them to 44 Colt length, but as previously written, the case mouth wouold be thicker, may cause problems when you roll crimp the rounds(??). Starline sells 44 Colt, but I have seen it for sale on some of the on-line outfits if you don't want to order Starlines 500 case minimum. Good Shooting. Love shooting the 44 Colts in the older style Colts. Crow Choker

[Coffinmaker]

Ask Me!!  Ask Me!!  My turn!!  My Turn!!  We're talking about my almost All Time Favorite Pistol here.  Yepper.  Once properly finished,
the Open Top Kits are just superb.  I don't personally recommend them in 45 Colt, but that's another subject.  Anyway >>>>>>

As previously mentioned by just about EVERYBODY, your Open Top(s) will digest all the straight wall .44s  Now, since you don't want
to beat up on your guns, Based on personal experience of course, is to skip the .44 Special.  Skip the .44 Colt.  Go directly to the
.44 Russian, do not pass go, do not collect 2000 dollars.  In modern cartridges it's the perfect case.  I would further suggest loading
it with the Big Lube .44 Slim bullet, available from My Wythe Leather Works.  The .44 Slim carries a wheel barrow full of lube.  You
can skip cookies and all that stuff.  Load it with 2f anything except 777 or (gasp - PUKE) PYRODEX.  The .44 Slim weighs in at about
165Gr and will drive tacks or light matcheads.  Manageably nice recoil, accurate, saves on powder, etc., etc., etc.  Or, do like
I did.  Just load APP and skip all the lube stuff so you can shoot any pistol bullet you like.  Wheeeeeeeeee!!!

Coffinmaker

Back to Our Regularly Scheduled Programming

[Crow Choker]

Good info Coffinmaker, but in my experience with the 44 Colt using FF and FFF black powder, the loads I've shot in my two Colts are anything but 'revolver beaters'. The 200 grain Mav Dutchmans using approx 25.0 grains of either granulation are mild shooters IMO and very accurate. The 44 Special loads I used to shoot in my Colts were far from any worry about 'beatin up the piece', I just like shootin black in them and save the 'shock and awe' 44 Specials for my Ruger (even then I'm not loading them to 'thunder loads'). Discussing these 44 cartridges is like the .22 rimfires that used to be available. You had Long Rifles, Longs, and Shorts.  The three 44's this thread has been discussing are the 44 Spec, 44 Colt, and 44 Russian. To me the 44 Russian is the .22 short of the bunch. No stabs at anybody who likes the Russian or shoots it, but to me its a 'puppy'.

[Coffinmaker]

You Betcha Choker!!

Tiz a warm, furry, Puppy.  Remembering, I are a card carrying, registered, WIMP!!  I like nice, easy, light loads.  I are a Wusse!!

Coffinmaker

[Crow Choker]

Endeavor to Persevere Coffinmaker!

[Rebel Dave]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I have some .44 Colt, and some .44 Russian brass coming in, along with a set of .44 Russian dies. I have a good supply of holy black, in 2, and 3f, so that looks good. I'll be using pure soft lead for the bullets.

I personally think some of these lead bullets you can buy, are to hard for these open tops. I have some Black Dawg  bulletts for black powder, and these seem real hard, not going to use them. I don't have any experience with the .44 slim, Coffinmaker mentioned, but I have heard good things about them.  I have an NOE mold that holds a wheelbarrow full of lube.  I have 5 or 6 .44 molds for .44/40. Will load some soft lead Russian,  up when the supplies come in.


Lots of good guys, and  info on this forum.

Rebel Dave

[Montana Slim]

Rebel Dave, you're on the right path.

A little late perhaps, but I can confirm that 44 Special can be easily trimmed to 44 Colt length & loaded. I have a few hundred rounds loaded & on the shelf. I generally shoot 44 Russian loads, but made the 44-Colt length rounds to experience a bit closer to the original cartridge. I loaded these 44 Colt rounds by adjusting the Lee 44 Russian die set. Just that simple.

Pretty much exclusive to using BP, and 200 grain "MAV" big lubes in my 44's.

Regards,
Slim

[Mean Bob Mean]

I would not spend the time and effort trimming .44 spec brass, I would order 500 new .44 colt and use those.  If you have a load of spec brass, sell it to finance the other brass.  I pack as much FFFg in as I can as I think it is a tad less dirty than the two poof.  I shoot Mav Dutchman's 200 grain big lubes and have no problems whatsoever.  I think I get a tad more than 25 grains in it, but that is my preference to do so.  I love the .44s, hope you do as well. 

Yours,

Mean Bob

[Lefty Dude]

You Betcha Choker!!

Tiz a warm, furry, Puppy.  Remembering, I are a card carrying, registered, WIMP!!  I like nice, easy, light loads.  I are a Wusse!!

Coffinmaker

You is also a card carrying Gamer Gun Fighter Wusse !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Coffinmaker]

Why, LEFTY DUDE,

How can you possibly say those things about ...... ME!!  I RESEMBLE THAT!!   

I are in FACT!!!!  A card carrying, registered Gamer Gunfighter Wusse WIMP!!     Also, one what shootz Cap Gun SNUBBIES as Main
Match Gunz.  Youz BETCHA Red Ryder!! 

Heaviest bullet I shoot inna Cap Guns is a .44 Round Ball.  What ever they weigh.  For those days that call for Suppositories, I drop in
a Conversion Cylinder with C45S cases and 130Gr Bullets.  Shooting my .36s, I use a walloping 90Gr EPP UG - 36.  Suppositories inna
36 are 125Gr TC.  Or sometimes 148Gr Hollowbase Wadcutters.  Real SERIOUS ARTILLERY!!      

Coffinmaker

[FriscoCounty]

I'm with Coffinmaker.  .44 Russian loaded with FFg or FFFg is my favorite load.  I prefer a heavier bullet, though.  I use a Lee 200 grain RF or Big Lube 200 grain MD (both are 6 bangers for marathon casting session).   

BTW, if you get the 1866 in .44 Special you can modify it with the Cowboy .45 Spcl Carrier from the The Smith Shop to accept .44 Russian.

[Coffinmaker]

Frisco,

You betcha.  And >>>> I did just that.  Unfortunately, my 44 Spl '66  will NOT PLAY with BP or Subs.  Overly generous chamber fouls
out in about 4 -5 rounds and then won't extract.  Smokeless only gun.  Bummer.  16 inch "Trapper" built onna Rifle.  Smokeless only gun.
Really really neat looking rifle.  Smokeless only gun.

Have I mentioned it's a smokeless only gun??  What a shame.  Oh well.

Coffinmaker

[Montana Slim]

Well someone done did it...very few 44 special shooters in these parts & a friend dropped off a bag of 50-60 empties last week that needed a home. At leisure, I'll trim the smidge off each case & add them added to my growing collection of 44 "Colt" brass. Changing my "Russian" die set over & back to load em is pretty easy using a dummy round of each type.

Regards,
Slim

[Mean Bob Mean]

I'm with Coffinmaker.  .44 Russian loaded with FFg or FFFg is my favorite load.  I prefer a heavier bullet, though.  I use a Lee 200 grain RF or Big Lube 200 grain MD (both are 6 bangers for marathon casting session).   

BTW, if you get the 1866 in .44 Special you can modify it with the Cowboy .45 Spcl Carrier from the The Smith Shop to accept .44 Russian.

They can also be modified to shoot .44 Colt.  The Colt and Russian chamberings are very close to the original Henry round if I recall correctly so that is cool. 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I Concur.
I Started out loading 44 Specials in my Open Tops.
Only took a few rounds to figure out it was too hot for my liking .
I did not want to beat the hell out of them .
So I switched to loading the 44 Russian with APP and a Lee 200 gr bullet .

Now they are my Favorite Cartridge guns .
Rooster

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  You guys are blaming the cartridge case for beating up your revolvers. That's like blaming the displacement of the engine in your vehicle because you exceeded the speed limit.

  Why go to the trouble of trimming .44 Special brass or buying oddball die and brass when all you need do is load your Special cases with less powder, and more importantly, shoot a lighter bullet.

  I found this outfit a few days ago and their moulds are really priced right. They also make a light .430" bullet:

  http://arsenalmolds.com/products?product_id=130&limit=100

This is the mould I use and it drops a 170 gr. RNFP.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-165CL-D.png

  CHT