Smokeless in an original 73 !

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

You oldtimers are rough, looks as though the OP, tj3006, disappeared after this thread became populated by folks with experience. I hope he and his rifles are well. I am going to add my two-cents regarding "weak-action" togglebolt rifles and the much maligned 1st Model. I walked my smokeless reloads right up to 15.8 gr of 2400 under  200gr of pure lead molycoated bullets. Both of my 44wcf rifles are standard 1st Models and after literally thousands of rounds both are none the worse for the wear and I'd like to think I learned a few things. I really prefer shooting Goex 3f, but the 2400 came to me at such a ridiculous price I have filled several 30cal cans with the rounds my son and I build together. I am going to guess that many new shooting enthusiasts have not been inside of these old weapons, (or they purchased new reproductions) for cleaning, inspection, maintenance, or repairs. Without the intimacy that servicing my own rifles has built, I might also fall prey to worries about safety and design strength. Everyone has their own comfort level, but over 4 decades of ownership, my '73's continue to amaze me with the toughness and reliability the original design renders.

Completely agree. For some reason we gunny types seem judge things by how they "look" rather than facts and data.

  CHT

[Bryan Austin]

FACT - 1895: Winchester Red Label cartridge boxes.
Smokeless powder was offered for the .44 Winchester during this year. It is believed that Dupont #2 Bulk powder was used and had a similar burn rate as today's 4227. Dupont #2 was a caseload but 4227 is not. Also "NOT FOR PISTOLS" is noted on the side label. The Nomenclature on the label specifically states "for Winchester Rifle Model 1873"...eliminating the myth that smokeless powders should not be used in original Winchester 73' rifles BUT does confirm smokeless powders should not be used in black powder frame revolvers. Other changes to he labels included Winchester 92 on the side label and eventually both 73' and 92' on the top label.


I urge these hard core old timers to get a current copy of Lyman's 49th and check out page 299 and page 300.

MYTH BUSTED!

MY LOAD DATA.....my data COULD BE WRONG!
Using factory  Buffalo Bore 44-40 "Heavy" as my "Control" @ 11,300 psi...

During my amateurish strain gauge testings, I found that 18.5gr of IMR4227 with a 200gr JHP Speer #4425 (by the book) resulted in 9,205psi. SAAMI max pressure is 11,000 PSI (13,000 cup).

16gr of 2400 with the same Speer 200gr JHP resulted in an average 10 shot pressure of  8,992 psi

Black powder loads, 40gr of Skirmish FFFG, 200gr Biglube = 8,900 psi
Black Powder loads, 32gr Kik FFFG, 217gr 43-215C (Lyman 427098 replica with crimp groove) = 6,043 psi

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT FOR THE WINCHESTER 73'

Lyman 49th also lists high pressure loads NOT for the 73'
10.5gr of Unique with a 205gr Lyman 427098 gave me 17,837 psi...Lyman lists this load @19,700 cup
20gr of 2400 with a Speer JHP gave me 15,618 psi...Lyman lists this load @ 19,000 cup

For a list of Winchester cartridge box color label descriptions and dates, check here: https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/44wcf-cartridge-boxs

and here: https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/single-post/2018/12/01/Winchesters-Colorful-Cartridge-Boxes

[Buck Stinson]

I 've been shooting original 1873's for 50 years.  The shooters I use most often were made in 1876, 1887 and 1899.  The load I use is 7.5 grains of Unique, with a 200 grain hard cast bullet.  My rifles and carbines are in very fine condition, so make sure your gun is tight and crisp.  There are many other smokeless loads out there for the original 73's.  Experiment and pick the one that works best.

[Bryan Austin]

Here is a letter on using smokeless in the original 73's dated 1907

[The original bad bob]

I don't want to create more controversy 

But I have an Iron framed first model 1873 carbine that I replaced the sewer pipe barrel that keyholed every round it fired with a new made 73 carbine barrel from Winchester barrels... I have fired at least 2k rounds through it with smokeless powder.. I use 200 grain cast bullets from a lee mold that I size to .428 and 7.5 grains of Unique... my carbine is pretty darned accurate with the new barrel.

The only problem I ever experienced was with a full magazine of cartridges.. occasionally I get a bullet pushed down into the cartridge case... yes.. I know about crimping it harder... I just load 8 at a time