What 45LC, 200gr mould do you like for CAS with New Vaquero's?

[Steel Striker]

Thinkin' 'bout saving a few hundred $$ by casting my own .452 x 200gr pills.

What moulds do you like, OR, which shall I not take time with.   Thanks pards.

Wally

P>S> Feel free to PM me...

[Blair]

Steel Striker,

Reducing not only the amount of lead but the powder charge as well help cut costs.
You may want to consider the  ".45 cal. Cowboy Special" in a .45 Colt?
My best,
Blair

[Professor Marvel]

There are some who swear *at* Lee molds and some who like them. at ~ $20 a pop I find them extremely affordable.

I have a handful of RCBS and other molds, but I have a couple dozen Lee molds -
being a cheap barstich frugal sort, the price is right, and since I only cast a few hundred bullets a month
for the amount I use them they work fine for me!

Those who cast thousands or more a month are usually the folks that have issues with them.

Outside of the occasional QA "glitch" (which has always been resolved nicely by Lee)  the rest of us normal folk seem to get on fine with Lee Molds. Oh, and there are some threads on tuning Lee Molds, ( often called "Lee Menting" on the cast boolits forum)

Also ,  I cannot  find anybody but Lee who offers a 200gr in the more traditional "roundnose flat point" .

I just ordered out (and am going to the PO now to pick up) one each of the following Lee molds.:
   
Lee Bullet Mold, .45 caliber,

LEE-90570 .452" diameter, 160 grain, round nose flat point Cowboy Action mold, double cavity



LEE-90234 .452" diameter, 200 grain, round nose flat point BPCR mold, double cavity


LEE-90358 .452" diameter, 255 grain, flat nose, solid base BPCR mold, double cavity


I already have a Lee 200 gr "Remington C&B round nose" mold I intend to try in cartridges "just because".

I also already have DD's "Big Lube" Lee molds in ~200 gr and ~250 gr that I plan to try. These should be great for BP in the rifle.

I plan to use these in my 1866 yellowboy, my Remington conversions, one Colt Conversion, and my Uberti and Pietta Model P clones. Oh, and my Remington Revolving Carbine. And a DIY .45 Colt single shot if I ever get it finished.

Hell I may even try cramming them in the C&B cylinders "for fun".


Also in the order is a Lee .405 HB for the trapdoor and a .312 185gr to try in a 7.7 Type 99

I will try them out and report back. But don't exect anythimg fast!

Since I just told the barstiche micromanaging nitpicking slavedriving overlords to stuff it  retired officially from the day job on Tuesday, after I sleep for a week, I will have more time to do whatever the hell I want to pursue these CAS passions,  and build knives and ML rifles.

Oh Yeah and I want to gemerize a trapdoor action with a .50 cal octagonal barrel     .
and finish "restoring" and shoot a pair of '95 mausers. and a 6.5 type 38.
and restore and shoot my 1870 12 ga double and the 12 ga fox rabbit ears. and ... and ...

As our Good Blair Pointed out:

Steel Striker,

Reducing not only the amount of lead but the powder charge as well help cut costs.
You may want to consider the  ".45 cal. Cowboy Special" in a .45 Colt?
My best,
Blair

Since .45 Cowboy brass is like dinosaur eggss so hard to come by ,  What I am doing is to use full length .45 Long Colt brass ( yeah I know all about the nomencalture , get over it     ) for BP- and subs-only, and .45 Schofield brass for smokeless only . This way I will be able to identify them readily and also reduce the amount of empty case for smokeless loads.

At some point I may be able to get the Holy Grail of molds, the 250~ gr .45 Colt hollow base , but maybe later.

hope this helps :-)

prof ( i pulled the pin and threw the retirement grenade!) marvel

[Steel Striker]

Blair;
Gotta use the 45LC brass, as that's what I standardized on 2 years ago.  Currently have about 3K+ ready for loading.  I'm using 5.0gr Trailboss specifically for the fluffy safe fill.  Thanks.

[w44wcf]

Professor Marvel,
Thank you for your excellent response.

I have experience with the Lee and Magma 200 gr. bullets in the .45 Colt.
The Lee 200 gr. bullet mold besides being relatively inexpensive, the bullets shot really well in 10 BHN alloy.

They provided better accuracy for me than the Magma 200's, but to be fair, the Magma's were commercial bullets made from 16+ BHN hardness.  In addition, the Magma molds are much more expensive than the Lee.

Based on my experience with both bullets I did design a 210 gr. bullet that kind of combined what I liked about both bullets but haven't had a chance to try it yet.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-210J-D.png

w44wcf

[Four Eyes Henry]

...."all about the nomencalture , get over it".....

"clature" maybe.....

[Professor Marvel]

Why, Thank you Jack (w44wcf)  and Henry -

I try to be informative, reasonably accurate, and above all else entertaining  :-)

Since I am not a "gamer" I struggeled over getting the 160 gr .45 mold but decided to throw it in the pile whilst I am still allowed to spend a little money, with the thought that it may actually work well in the C&B revolvers which are "suppoosed to" have a better twist for short RB than for conicals.  Besides, in 60 or so more years  once I am around 125 or 130  I might like a lighter load :-)

what with all the different lengths of .45 rimmed brass we are playing with, perhaps it might actually be useful to to "rename" the stuff whilst continuing to acknowledge the historic  nomeenkulture  namenclickture name ?

"I'll have a couple boxes of .45 colt short,  one box of .45 colt medium and 10 boxes of .45 colt extra long...."

hmmmmm perhaps not.....

yhs
prof (12 hrs of sleep a night so far) mumbles

[Steel Striker]

I see now that Lee has 3 "45" , 200gr moulds;

#90697 seems to have the typical crimp groove
#90310 has no crimp groove, probably for the 45ACP
#90379 has 6 lube/crimp grooves w/ beveled base.

Anyone using the #90379 die?  Looks interesting to me, but mayhaps the narrow 'driving' bands are not as good for 'centering' than the #90697 die w/2 driving bands & 1 lube groove.   Pls. edumacate me with your experience.  Again, this is for CAS shooting, not target nor long distance stuff.  Thanks again.

[Four Eyes Henry]

Professor, your posts are always entertaining  and I wish you happy pursuing

Steel Striker, that's for Tumble Lubing with liqu luqid Lee stuff.
If you are using the original length of 45 Colt brass you might have to seat them deeper for use in the revolver.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

The DD J/P .45 210 grain BL bullet with 1/3 c/c FFFg (name a brand) in the .45 Cowboy Special AKA .45 Short brass makes a cracker jack load in rifle or revolver. My 1960 Henry has a Smith Shop lifter and a positive slam down (Coffinmaker thanks) lifter arm will run as fast as a Gun Powder shooter can see the next target . Also the barrel does not get as hot compared to the .44-40/.45 Colt with 2.7 c/c of FFFg and that same J/P .45 210 grain RNFP bullet. A 10 shot stage and you could cook the morning bacon on a barrel flat.

Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

[Steel Striker]

I've ordered the LEE #90697 6 cavity, .452 - 200gr mold.

Thanks everyone for helping.  Now I'm out to the garage, figuring a way to break up my stash of lead ingots [CWW's] for the 20# casting pot.  Figure on just staying with the Clip on Wheel Weights, & using a touch of Pewter [tin] if the Lee molding process calls for it.

I'll tumble lube w/Alox & tumble in some ground Mica for storage.  That Mica worked well with my .461-405gr pills.

[Coffinmaker]

Just make sure you check your "clip on" wheel weights for ZINK weights. 

Coffinmaker.

PS:  I like the 200Gr J/P Big Lube.  Hauls a gob and a half of lube down the barrel 

[Steel Striker]

Coffinmaker;

Yea, I looked into that Zinc pollution aspect.  If I keep my smelting kettle under 750 deg F [melts @ 786 deg F], I should be OK.  One way is to spoon off the dross & floating clips, steel weights & presumably other stuff incl. Zinc, as soon as the Lead starts to melt around everything.

Turn off propane, add final flux [Pine sawdust] & pour into my ingot.   Thanks for your precaution.

Here's a pic of the mold I made, so the ingots would fit between the wall studs in the garage & not get in the way. 

[wildman1]

If you drop the WW on the floor the zinc will make a clink sound the lead makes a clunk sound, different and easily identified. wM1

[Steel Striker]

True, but wouldn't that mean handling 100# one by one, and all that stooping?

I'm OK with smelting in a full 8qt. cast iron pot & scooping the dregs.  Thanks.

My Lee #90697, ($49.19) .452-200, 6 cavity mould arrived a few days back.  Just waiting for temps to drop off of 90+.

[Hans Christian]

This has been an interesting thread!

We have several different 45 Colts in the family, pistols and rifles. My Elder Statesman father prefers to use 4 3/4" OMV Rugers. We developed a light 200 gr load to ease the recoil. He is quite pleased with it.

The bullet is from an RCBS 45-200-SWC mould. It is a clone of the Lyman 452460 semi-wadcutter. The Lee 90310 is similar but different in several respects.  These bullets are normally associated with 45 ACP.  My alloy is close to 50/50 +.75 tin with a BHN of about 10.

The RCBS has a short nose and a long bearing surface. This allows the bullet to seat deeply in the cavernous Long Colt case. As a consequence, bullet tension is higher. There is no crimping groove which has not been an issue in our experience. We use a light roll crimp into the front driving band with a Lee FCD. A taper or profile crimp should work equally well.

We settled on 5.5 gr of Trailboss. 5.0 did not give us a good chamber seal. YMMV.

As I stated, this load is meant for revolvers. We have run them through the magazines of Rossi 1892 clones with mixed results.

Our standard rifle load uses 240 gr RNFP bullets, so the difference is readily apparent.

[Steel Striker]

Hans;  Good info all.  Will share pics of 1st 1023 batch of pills from LEE #90697 mold when I get another sync cable for phone.

I've been hesitant to NOT crimp in a groove when loading Marlin 1894CB for CAS matches, 'cause if one boolit sneaks into the case, it WILL NOT CHAMBER!  Tried it before hand. 

Annealing?:  My tests revealed 4.8-5.0 gr Trailboss + 200gr boolit seals quite well, so I've standardized on 5.0 gr.  I'm also revisiting the need for 'full length' resizing.  Chambers in New Vaquero's & Marlin 1894CB are different for sure, so think I'll go thru a bunch of cleaned brass & try them in both to see what's up.  IF all goes well, then retracting the sizing die is in order, eh.   

P.S.  Is this a great forum or what?

[Hans Christian]

That Lee 90697 is a better choice for a all purpose pistol/rifle bullet. With your case annealing and light Trailboss load, it sounds like you are in business!

I have tried the neck size only route with 45 Colt with poor results. Finally invested in a Redding Dual Ring sizing die. Case splitting dropped dramatically in our non-annealed cases. Cases sized in the dual ring fit the chambers in all of our pistols and rifles without complaint, something I could not rely on with neck sizing alone.

The 200 gr SWC load I described above is great for pistol. I agree that a crimping groove is desired for rifle ammo where reliability is paramount.

[Steel Striker]

Casting LEE #90697 update:

In 2 hours of actual casting, I produced 1023 pills, that seem to average 216gr., using smelted/fluxed CWW's [clip-on wheel weights].  They drop nicely into a cloth funnel I sewed, which I bungy corded to the water bucket.

[Steel Striker]

Casting update:
Here's 1,023 216gr [CWW's only] pills from my LEE #90697 mold.  Shot practice & one SASS event, & they worked fine, pulling one patch thru & bbl was clean as a whistle.  They shoot a bit 'smokey' from the vaporizing Xlox lube, but that just adds a little realism, eh.

Someone cautioned me that I might have to seat these deep to fit inside the cylinder, but I did not find that to be the case.

I can't speak to long range accuracy.  I was curious, but my sight didn't come close to the mega mils elevation needed.