12Ga All Brass Hulls - 10Ga Plastic Wads >> REPORT !! LATEST RE-REPORT

[Coffinmaker]

OK.  I'll bite. Been following a thread on another forum.  
Anybody here tried 10Ga plastic wads in 12Ga All Brass hulls in a 12Ga Double??  I wanna see how it will work.  Or, if it will work well.
It would eliminate the Over Powder wad and the Cushion wad.  Capped with the over shot card.
What say youz guyz??

Coffinmaker

[Mean Bob Mean]

OK.  I'll bite. Been following a thread on another forum. 
Anybody here tried 10Ga plastic wads in 12Ga All Brass hulls in a 12Ga Double??  I wanna see how it will work.  Or, if it will work well.
It would eliminate the Over Powder wad and the Cushion wad.  Capped with the over shot card.
What say youz guyz??

Coffinmaker

I have been wondering about trying this.  My concern is cleaning melted plastic outta the brass hulls.  Could it be more work than it saves by using them?

[Lefty Dude]

This thought crossed my mind Years ago, when I was just starting to play with the all Brass shells. I never got around to the trial & error stage. I found a loading method that worked and I still load the same today.
My column is this; 45-50 gr's of Goex 3F, followed by a Circle fly 11 ga. 1/8" OPC. Then a CF 1/2 non lubed cushion wad is installed. The final wad is a 12 ga. plastic wad, non compressed and used full length to house the shot. This wad is apprx. 1.3" in total length. A short 1 oz. plastic wad. The 1 oz of shot is placed in the cup. The cover is a CF 10 ga. OSC.
This column length is with in 1/8" from the case mouth.

I do get some plastic snot strings in my barrels from the plastic wads. To clean I remove the barrel from the action, cork the barrel ends. Then pour boiling water in the breach-end, letting it sit for 20 minutes. Uncork the barrels and out comes the black strings of plastic.

Back to the 10 ga. plastic wads; My trials with 10 ga. cushion wads leads me to believe that by compressing the wad in the thin brass case will lead to excessive case expansion. The RMC cases are thicker and can be used with compressed wads and are made for such.
I was gifted a bag of CF 10 ga. Cushion wads, and used a few, after fighting to get them in the cases, my experience says 11 ga. is best.

[Coffinmaker]

I've already acquired a bag of 10Ga Plastic wads.  these slide into a 12 Brass hull easily.  I do expect "snake skin" in the bore after shooting
but I don't think there wall be any real deposit in the hull itself. 

I have also had some good luck with Lefty's basic stack.  Powder, Over Powder Wad, 1/2 inch cushion wad and now a plastic 12Ga
Shot Cup made from a 12Ga wad.  Better patterns.  I want even better, and to eliminate the gooey wads and promote faster reloading
of the hulls.  I would think the powder burn would soften the 10Ga wad for an easy trop thru the bore. 

Stay Tuna!!

Coffinmaker

[Abilene]

If you use plastic wad without the OPC, I think you will increase the amount of melted plastic.  I use the OPC, then a red plastic wad.  Good pattern.  Very easy cleanup.  If it ain't broke?...  But I look forward to your results.

[Lefty Dude]

I will stay tuned for results.

[Mean Bob Mean]

I have a ton of cards and fiber wads, think I will see if I can make a recipe using a hybrid fiber/plastic setup. 

Thanks all for the ideas and encouragement you always posit here

[Colt Fanning]

Howdy,
Ballistic products offers nitro cards, cushion wads and overshot cards in 9, 10, 11, and 12 Ga sizes.  I use the 9 ga wads in 10 ga brass shells and they are a tight fit.  I think you would be better off to use 11 Ga wads in 12 ga brass shells.
Regards
Colt

[Mean Bob Mean]

Howdy,
Ballistic products offers nitro cards, cushion wads and overshot cards in 9, 10, 11, and 12 Ga sizes.  I use the 9 ga wads in 10 ga brass shells and they are a tight fit.  I think you would be better off to use 11 Ga wads in 12 ga brass shells.
Regards
Colt

I use 11 gauge fiber wads as well but there are no 11 gauge plastic wads that I know of. 

[Coffinmaker]

Hello Mudda .... Hello Fadda ..... dare I were at Camp Granada ......

So ....... Shot a match Saturday (yesterday).  Took my Knew-2-Me load for a shakedown.  All Brass 12Ga hulls, square one ounce load
10Ga plastic wad, Over Shot Cards.  Boomba!!  Worked a treat ........ well ...... almost.  Great Boom, sounded like a howitzer, but, alas
zero recoil.  Just felt the gun move a little.  No satisfying "thump" to the shoulder.  Pattern appeared to be nice and tight, but no real
velocity.  The payload just kind of ambled out there.  Made the targets to down, just took a week to get there.  Some just wiggled.

It's simple physics.  Every action as an equal but opposite reaction.  No recoil means the load has no real velocity.  Bummer.  New plan.
Add more Powda.  I just think the load is a mite anemic.  Gonna give it some more Boomba and see if I can get more chutzpa.  Also,
Snakeskin.  Really good snakeskin.  Bores looked like a sewer pipe yer plumber would tell ya to dig up and replace.  Ugly.  SO:
Just had to see how hard to clean up.  Gave the bores a solid shot of my secret recipe glass cleaner and counted to 13.  Shoved a patch
through the bore(s).  A patch.  Just one.  Fouling and snakeskin slit out, bores sparkled.  Marvelous.  Easy peasy cleanup.

Thus Far:  Successfully eliminated the gooey fiber cushion wad.  Successfully eliminated the Nitro Over Powder wad.  The 10Ga plastic
wad is a go.  Works a treat.  The load however, is some wussier.  Gotta add some Powda n see if I can speed it up a mite..  Currently
a One Ounce square load, gonna bump the powda to 1 1/8.  Maybe 1 1/4.  Oh, APP .. 2F

WHEEEEEEEEEE'
Coffinmaker

Forgot.  Also think I'm going to put the Nitro Over Powder card back in to reduce the heat on the plastic wad and maybe reduce the
snakeskin.   This are a real fun project.

[Abilene]

...Successfully eliminated the Nitro Over Powder wad.... Also think I'm going to put the Nitro Over Powder card back in to reduce the heat on the plastic wad and maybe reduce the
snakeskin.   This are a real fun project.

Since you had a satisfying thump with the same amount of powder before, I'm betting that adding back an 11 ga. OPC alone will give it back to you without needing to add more powder.  You'd think that a tight fitting plastic wad would seal enough for good pressure, but with APP I dunno.  BP blanks make lots of noise with no recoil, either 

[Coffinmaker]

I learned (I could do that oncest) many years ago, Gunsmithing, if you make too many changes at once, you really don't know "which"
change gave you the desired result.  Always do one change at a time.  Except this time.  Gonna add powder AND the Over Powder card
at the same time.  If it works as hoped, I'll just stay with it.  Or, maybe just go to the OPC and see what it does.

I think an ounce of shot, in a good pattern with some chutzpa on it is plenty of shot.  7/8s in a Featherlight WW will take down anything.
I'm just surprised I have something here that makes a Featherlight seem .......... heavy.  This is being a lot of fun.  It's also nice the
fired hulls come out of my TTNs really nice.  I have also learned (there is that again) that the primers MUST be well seated.

Coffinmaker

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Coffinmaker; How low did you go? The lower the pressure ona lode the tighter the shot pattern, which seems to be watcha got in spades.

I have heard of sawd off shooters trying get the knockdowns down by upping the powder charge. Result == Ring patterns of scattered shot and knockdowns proudly standing!

"Moderation in all things!" (An "ol proverb")

[Bibbyman]

I'm loading 12 gauge Magtech hulls with 3.3 CCs of BlackMZ,  BPI PT-1044 10 gauge plastic wad, 1 oz reclamed shot, a biodegradable packing peanut compressed over shot to fill above top of wad, 10 gauge top card glued in with Duco cement.   I'm not putting much presure on the wad. 

I'd say this load is taking down our knockdowns about as well as AA Fearher Lights.  The third target from the right was set pretty hard.

I'm shooting a CZ-USA hammer coach gun with 20" barrels.  No snake,  only black soot.  Pour some water in bores and pull bore snake through from breach to muzzle.

[Lefty Dude]

More powder is not required, just add the OPC back-in the column. This will give you the pressure you desire.

Remember, the plastic wad in a plastic shell has a very tight folded and star crimp. This is necessary for the pressure to build before the plastic wad is released. With the Brass case, the restriction of the case mouth is very little. The charge expels very quickly from the case, with little expansion, just a big boom.
The fiber wads give the charge a few Micro-seconds longer to expand and release the shot package with more gusto and power.

When I load Smokeless in the brass cases, I install two OPC on top of the powder. This is required to give the powder enough time to build up the needed pressure to expel the shot package. Smokeless powder has a much higher and quicker pressure spike than Black.
With one OPC and smokeless I was getting a lot of Boom and hardly any release, and very little power. I added the second card and issue was resolved.
Just my two cents, for what it is worth.

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Lefty!! 

This is all YOUR fault you know.  'Couple of seasons back when I got the wild hare to run All Brass Hulls, you were kind enough to provide
endless (et seemed) tutelage in the ways of the Brass.  GOT ME HOOKED!!  Now there is no hope.  I am now sliding down a long and
slippery slope, with no hope of salvation.  YOUR FAULT do ya hear!!
Thanks again for all your help.  I just loaded a box with the OPC stuffed back in.  Shooting three day match this coming weekend.  We'll
giver a shot (pun intended).

Ah Bibbyman ......... I've seen that Vid before.  Perhaps on another forum??  Perhaps under a slightly different alias??  Unless I are greatly
mistaken, your in the same boat with Lefty Dude.  It's YOUR FAULT!!  Got me started on this search to replace the gooey fiber wad and
cut down my loading time.  IT WORKS.  However, your shooting a different propellent.  I'm using APP.  Great googley Gobs of SnakeSnot
in the bore. (easy to clean, look ugly).  I haven't been to a pattern board yet, but it looks like my CAS distance shot pattern is about 10
inches.  Means I actually have to point the gun AT the target.  Strange concept.

There is a funny side too.  There I stood, shotgun at the ready wait for the beep.  Snapped the shotgun up, stepped into it, ready for the
recoil, pulled triggers BOOMBA like a howitzer.  I almost fell over face first cause the shotgun didn't move.  DIDLY SQUAT for recoil.  I'm
gonna load some of these for my Antique J. P. Sauer 12.  It weighs less than yer average 20Ga and WILL hurt ya (wimpy me).  Come to
think of it, lot more recoil with gooey Fiber wads.  Hummmmmmmmmmm.

THE SAGA CONTINUES  (STAY TUNA)

COFFINMAKER

[Lefty Dude]

I will stay tuned for more of the Saga !   

[Abilene]

I don't really care for tuna.  Smoked salmon, maybe?   

[Scattered Thumbs]

I don't really care for tuna.  Smoked salmon, maybe?   

I like 'm both. 

And I'll stay tuna. (love them reports from coffinmaker).

[Lefty Dude]

A report from Coffinmaker could be Fishy, you understand.