Single Action Army in 32/20. Why!!!

[Black River Smith]

Ok, not really wanting to start an argument by this question, just trying to understand Why I am seeing so many original Colt's in 32/20 on the selling sites.  A 32 caliber, light bullet, with only 20 grains of BP behind it.

Now, I know that the 32/20 chambering was Colt SAA's 4th or 5th best selling caliber (32/20 or 41colt).  But, why, did so many people buy the Colt chambered for it?  I could see Winchester creating the caliber to increase sales of its 1873 rifle by going after the 'youth' small caliber, small game market (also 25/20).  But a handgun in that same caliber?

So, what do you believe was the selling point or buying factor for this caliber and also why are so many replica's being sold in this same caliber?  Yes, I do understand about competitiveness of the small caliber (low recoil).  I have been in CAS for 20+ years.

But there seems to be a kind of following for this caliber and I do not understand the allure.

Thanks

[Abilene]

For the same reason as 32/20 in a rifle.  Less damage to small game.  It also recoils considerably less in a handgun than a 45 Colt. 

Now, why did Colt start making SAA's in 44-40 when they already had the perfectly good .45?  Because it made sense to carry one ammo that could be shot in both rifle and pistol.  Same thing with the .32-20

Popularity today isn't so much because of competition, I don't think.  I mean, you can't get much lighter or faster than the current .38 race guns.  I think it is more because of the authenticity of the round.  I shoot a 32-20 SAA made in 1915 that belongs to my brother.  So I was already reloading for it and when a super deal came up on a Cimarron '73 in .32-20 I snagged it.

[Cliff Fendley]

Ok, not really wanting to start an argument by this question, just trying to understand Why I am see so many original Colt's in 32/20 for sale on the selling sites.  A 32 caliber light bullet with only 20 grains of BP behind it.

Now, I know that the 32/20 chambering was Colt SAA's were the 4th or 5th best selling caliber (32/20 or 41colt).  But, why, did so many people buy the Colt chambered for it?  I could see Winchester creating the caliber to increase sales of its 1873 rifle by going after the 'youth' small caliber, small game market (also 25/20).  But a handgun in that same caliber?

So, what do you believe was the selling point or buying factor for this caliber and also why are so many replica's being sold in this same caliber?  Yes, I do understand about competitiveness of the small caliber (low recoil).  I have been in CAS for 20+ years.

But there seems to be a kind of following for this caliber and I do not understand the allure.

Thanks

ONLY 20 grains of black powder? The government round used in the 45 colt had only 28 grains of black powder as does the 45 Schofield. My 32wcf with it's lighter bullet has more velocity than the 45 using that load and rivals the full house 45 colt black powder loads in velocity. Plus just like the other winchester chamberings it shoots much cleaner than the 45 colt round using black powder.

It would have been a great round for controlling varmints and shooting critters to put food on the table and I'm dang sure a person wouldn't want to get shot with it either.

I have been shooting the 32wcf in CAS. I have a bad arm and the 32wcf is a very pleasant round to shoot and it's an authentic chambering and I still get plenty of smoke and boom with black powder. It is also the cleanest round I've ever shot using black powder. Action stays even cleaner than 44 or 38wcf guns.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 I've asked myself this same question so many times. In my estimation it's too small for deer, yet unnecessarily large for small game. Plus a Colt SA or Bisley, or any of the lever rifles will be heavier when chambered in this smaller caliber than they would be in larger calibers.

  Of late I've been picking up some original '73's, rifles and revolvers in 38-40, but just can't warm up to the 32-20. But...to each his own!

  CHT

[Black River Smith]

I have to agree with Cholla Hill's second line here about the small caliber.

I did not mention the combo gun factor in the original posting because I do not see the two firearms going together as they would with a 44/40 or 38/40 cartridge.  Now the two larger cartridges were more often used by lawmen, bad men and just travelling men IMO.  That means someone on the road or country that had to kill a lot of game (not knowing what type of game you where going to cross) to stay alive for long periods, without town visits.  I do not see someone like that depending on 32/20 to stay alive and also desire a handgun of same, for convenience.

To me, the general term of 'handgun hunting' was not as common at that time, as it is now.  Yes, Keith was experimenting in the '20's but not too many 'working people' would just buy a handgun to 'try and shoot game' for dinner.  Nor would a rancher or ranch-hand depend on that caliber for shooting coyotes, wolvs, and/or mountain lions, to save livestock.

So my question still stands Why in about 1884 to 1940 did Colt produce ~30,000 -  32/20 that shot a 115 grain bullet at ~760 ft/s and who bought them, for what use?

[Black River Smith]

Ok, no real discussion happening, so the main reason for this questioning is I am interested in getting my one and only Colt SAA.  The LGS I talked to asked what calibers are you interested in, I stated anything besides a 32/20.  Since then I have been looking at the Selling sites and surprised at the number of 32/20 listed.  They are not cheaper than any other caliber but just the number of them are interesing.

Also, it would be yet another caliber I would have to 'start up' loading for and that is not something I am interested in doing.

So should I change my mind about owning a 32/20 as my only Colt?

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 I'll tell ya, I've bought a couple of old Colt Bisley's as well as four '73 Winchesters all in 38-40.. Initially I bought 38-40's simply because they sell a little cheaper than 44-40's or 45 Colts. But since acquiring them, I've become quite enamored with the cartridge. I had a pair of Bisley's in 38-40 and traded one of them for a Colt SA in 38-40 and am very pleased. I still cannot get interested in the 32-20, maybe because I'm a hunter and figure I can always use the 38-40's for deer while the 32-20 would be too light.

So, my suggestion would be to keep an eye out for the 38-40's. Colts in 41 Colt can be had for a fair amount of money and all a fella has to do is locate a 38-40 cylinder, drop it in, and he's in business.

  CHT

[Black River Smith]

Cholla Hill,

Thank for the advise.  I will try keeping an eye out for a 41Colt.  As a matter of fact, I have always desired a 41 Colt (different) so if I am lucky, I will be total satisfied.

[Cliff Fendley]

So my question still stands Why in about 1884 to 1940 did Colt produce ~30,000 -  32/20 that shot a 115 grain bullet at ~760 ft/s and who bought them, for what use?

Actually 3f BP loads crony at near 900 fps pistol and 1275 fps rifle. Do the math and it pretty much rivals the 38 Long Colt of the time and it's even in the same ball park as a 38 special in overall ballistic performance. We all know how many millions of handguns have been chambered for the 38 special.

The same weight bullets it has the same velocity as a 38 special and the same muzzle energy. The more standard weight 158 grain 38 special is slower but winds up producing a little more muzzle energy although for lethal stopping power I could see the 32wcf having more penetration with the narrow more pointy bullet at the faster rate. Today we all know penetration is one of the key factors when choosing loads and bullet styles when carrying the smaller pocket pistols for self defense.

The 32wcf round is nothing to sneeze at, obviously Colt and it's customers realized that for so many to have been made.

[pistol1911]

I have my grandfathers Colt Police Positive in 32/20 that he carried when he worked on the railroad. I should have asked him why he bought this caliber,  but never thought to do so. His revolver dates from the early 1900's. He worked for the Southern Railroad from 1899 to 1975.

[Delmonico]

Just another one of the things that if you have to ask, most likely you would never understand anyway.

[Major 2]

Up until I was about the age of 10 or 11  32-20 was the most powerful cartridge I had shot...it was Dads S&W Hand Ejector chambered in 32-20.
He carried it aboard the Lenape his 32' motor cruiser Jan 1942- June 1943 , he volunteered his craft & service for U.S. Coast Guard Reserve (Temp).  
http://www.a0700404.uscgaux.info/history.htm

I have the gun now, Dad gave it to me when I was 21, I shot it some but 32-20 pretty much dried up on shelves, and I did not really search for any...
I had not shot it since the early 70's ...A wave of nostalgia came over me , when I found an old photo of the Lenape at anchor
I decided to bring the Old S&W back to barking...
...like it so much ,
I purchased a Marlin 94 in 32-20 15 months ago...to shoot with it..... I like the 32-20 cartridge

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Just another one of the things that if you have to ask, most likely you would never understand anyway.

Well now, thanks for your contribution, Mr. Grumpy Pants!  

 Today I was cleaning out my credenza at work at ran across a Handloader magazine that contains an article on the 32-20 and was written by Brian Pearce. It's fantastic piece that sort of put things into perspective for me. Therein he refers to the cartridge as a "working cartridge" that was carried by farmers/ranchers and kept around the homestead to control predators. Pretty much the same purpose the '92 Rossi .357 in my laundry room gun rack serves; (permanently)keeping the coyotes and stray dogs away from the chicken house and skunks out of the yard. He stated he's even used it on a few whitetails with complete satisfaction. Were it not for the omnipresent wild swine that frequent this area, I'd be perfectly satisfied with a brace of 32-20's.
 I'm sure many bought revolvers so chambered for self defense as well. We need to remember that 120 years ago there were no internet forums with folks clambering about the lack of killing power of these smaller cartridges.

CHT

[Delmonico]

A little research will explain things, the modern version is the 32 mag and the High Speed version is the 327 S&W, or the Ruger and Marlin only versions of the 32 mag many of us have been using for 30 years or more.   

I have been throwing Lyman 311316's at 1250 fps out of a 5 1/2 SSM for 30 years, never shot a deer with it but would not be afraid to at reasonable range.  The penetration of that bullet that weighs 122 gr out of my allow will make one think twice about so called mouse guns.   

[Black River Smith]

Major2, very interesting story and history.

Cholla Hill, I sure hope you are not thinking of giving up on that nice looking 44spec you carry daily, for a 32/20.

From all the interesting comments maybe the 32/20 does sound interesting as an all around general purpose easy shooting caliber but then there is the long living 38spec that can't be beat for versatility and bullet selection.  Just not a bottleneck case nor period correct but still a Colt cartridge spin-off.

For some added 32/20 info I just came across.  All the 30,000 Colt's were make with in a 25 year period lasting from '84 to only '09 and from re-reading the reference books I have, it does appear that the bulk went to ranchers as a varmint and small game tool.

[Galloway]

I think the suprising number of originals for sale is due to them being the least desireable caliber.

[Abilene]

...For some added 32/20 info I just came across.  All the 30,000 Colt's were make with in a 22 year period lasting from '87 to only '09 ...

My brother's 32-20 SAA was made in 1915.  It is a long flute model, of which there were around 1500 made, as Colt was recycling old double action cylinders from storage.  I shoot it at a match once or twice a year with my 1901 .45 SAA (which left the factory as a 38-40).  BP of course!   

[Black River Smith]

Galloway,

That was what my whole question centered around.  With as many as are being listed for sale and as many 1st gen originals that appear to have been converted/altered in later years then why was it the 4th most popular caliber during the 1st gen production years?

The 38Colt with 18 grain and a 150 grain bullet was available, too.  Sold longer than the 32/20 but only had ~2,400 revolver sold.  All 1st gen 38's and 357's totalled only ~3000.


One more piece of info, I forgot to mention in the last posting, about the 32/20 that I read in the Cartridges of the World book is that the 32/20 could 'chamber 32S&W long and short and 32Colt cartridges... This is mentioned to demonstrate the versatility of 32/20 weapons in a pinch...'


Abilene,
Your brother has a nice looking revolver there.  It is kind of him to lend it out for match use.  The '09 date come from Parsons book where he states the '09 was the last year the 32 was listed as an available cartridge.  Your brother's gun could have been a custom order request after production stopped.  Do all numbers match up?  Was maybe the barrel and cylinder changed?  Since the 1878 stopped in 05 and the 32/20 stopped in 09 than the '15 - 32/20 long flute, could only be a custom order type revolver or just made to use those 1878 part.  According to Wilson's table the long flutes were all made in '15.

[Abilene]

As I mentioned, Colt made around 1500 of the long flute .32's in 1915 (possibly some were made the year before or after, I don't recall that info).  The gun does have matching serial numbers for that year production.   So they were not special order.  I don't know if any standard-cylinder .32's were made at all in that time frame.  Maybe somebody found those old cylinders and said, hey why don't we make a bunch of .32's so we can use them up.  You know, kind of like a friend giving you a whole bunch of ammo of a caliber you don't own so it gives you an excuse to go buy a gun to shoot it 

A good friend of my brother was dying, and my brother asked him for something to remember him by, anything at all.  The guy had a collection of guns and handed my brother this gun.  My brother has a couple guns, a 'Smith snubby and a Python, but he never shoots.  He has never shot the SAA but I've put close to 1000 rounds through it.  It has a fairly rough bore that leads with smokeless but shoots good with BP.  Some time in the past the gun was parkerized or something like that, so despite the long flutes no real collector value.

By the way, my brother related to me a story that friend had told him about handling one of his guns in his office and having an AD that put a hole in an expensive painting on the wall. 

[Galloway]

Black River Smith,

Why is it being the 4th most popular caliber so surprising when it was winchesters 3rd? Makes sense to me. Did you expect some of the more obscure but better performing chamberings of the saa to have out sold it?

And why is it surprising the only originals left are the 32's because everyone bought up all the big bore saa's and thats all thats left?

As for comparing it to the 38 colt which i dont believe would have worked in a winchester, I believe it and the 41 colt were special order calibers after a few initial runs.

Also as mentioned  there was no internet at the time and probably very little was known about stopping power and most people didnt own a handgun at all. So right or wrong those are the calibers colt choose to get behind. Look at the 357sig vs 9mm today.