Ignition Delay ----- ???

[Coffinmaker]

Hello Muda, Hello Fadda, Her I are at Camp ....... Snap -- Crackle -- POP!!

And you all thought I could sing!! Ha!!  Here is the issue.  I use APP.  Actually, I use APP for EVERYTHING.  Rifle, Pistol, Shotguns,
Cap Guns.  The problem is with Cap Guns.  There is a distinct delay between the "Snap" of the cap and the BANG.  It's really
starting to annoy me........   Snap . a heart beat . BANG.

Cartridges, no problemo.  Normal instant ignition.  When shooting a CAS stage it is normally pull the trigger, shift target.  With my Cap
Guns, it's pull the trigger, Snap - wait for it - BANG, shift the target.

Anybody else have the same result??  I'm kinda miffed.

Coffinmaker

[Pettifogger]

Only if the bullet is not seated on the powder or if there is any air gap or if the charge is abnormally low.  PUT some powder in there and it will work fine.   

[Coffinmaker]

Well, I knew a girl named Aby-Normal some time back, was that ever .......... we won't go there.

Don't know why I didn't think of that.  I use a "stop" on my cylinder loading stand to give me a consistent loading depth of the Ball
every time.  I think I didn't have the problem before I added the ball stops.  However, I DO have the memory of a small flighty Gnat.
I liked the performance before I experienced the ignition delay so I will have to take a serious peak at the seating depth since I added
the ball depth stop.

Always look at the most recent change you've made.  Simple rule of thumb.  Duh  Just too close to the #$%^ Trees.

Coffinmaker

[Blackpowder Burn]

Or use real black powder! 

Yeah, yeah, I know - we all play the game based on our personal desires.  Just yankin' your chain a bit. 

[hellgate]

I had that problem with Pyrodex P using a lube wad. Every shot was PaBOOM rather than just BOOM. I found that I had to ram the ball very hard to get rid of the delay. Maybe that would help.

[Coffinmaker]

Hellgate,

Atz why I like APP.  No messing with lubes or wads ('cept Shotgun).  I'm gonna mess around today inna shop and see where the ball
is stopping in relation to the powder charge.  I suspect Pettifogger nailed it.

Coffinmaker

[Scattered Thumbs]

Hellgate,

Atz why I like APP.  No messing with lubes or wads ('cept Shotgun).  I'm gonna mess around today inna shop and see where the ball
is stopping in relation to the powder charge.  I suspect Pettifogger nailed it.

Coffinmaker

So do I.

[Trailrider]

I DO mean to alarm you! Hangfires can be VERY dangerous! They can be an indication that the projectile has been moved from the cartridge case, or from its starting position to impinging on the rifling, with the powder being only partially ignited and pressure built up until stable burning has been achieved! When the ball/bullet stops against the rifling leade, pressure then builds up, which can set the unburned or partially-burned powder off.  Since it takes more force to start a ball/bullet moving once it has come to rest, pressure buildup can be severe!  As was posted above, you need to be sure the ball is large enough in diameter to provide a tight seal, seat the ball on top of the powder charge (whether is required compressing the charge, depends on the type of powder being used).  If used in a cartridge, put on as tight a crimp of the case mouth against the bullet, plus using the tightest interference fit of bullet and case.  This will insure good ignition without the problem of hangfires or ignition delays.

[Coffinmaker]

Well, A good day was had by all.  Well, at least me.
Trailrider .......
Too True.  And, stuff I've known for years.  Forever almost.  Just never entered my mind I was seating the ball(s) too shallow.

Anyway, went into the office today and ran some measurements.  It would appear, when I set the ram depth on my Tower of Power, I
set it too shallow.  Measurement by Eyeball, Mark I, A-1 was ........ inadequate.  It would seem with my chosen powder charge (self
made scoop) I was leaving approximately 1/16 inch air gap between the top of the powder and the Ball.  This oversight was resulting
in a less than harmonious experience.  I have now changed the adjustment spacers on my Cylinder Loader to seat the ball onto the
powder charge with maybe just a hint of compression (APP says don't compress)

I'll find out at tomorrow's CAS match if I have totally resolved the issue.  I suspect I have.  Unfortunately, same same problem with my
36 loader.  I had to take actual measurements and change the seating depth for the 36s as well.  Should have take measurement to
start rather than rely on gestimation.

Coffinmaker

[wildman1]

Newbies do have their problems.  wM1

[Coffinmaker]

S C O R E!!!!

Coffinmaker

[Coffinmaker]

As above, S C O R E!!  Problem solved.  I find it amazing that I didn't realize I had a air gap and was getting a "hang fire" every round.
So much for being too close to the trees to see the forrest.  Some dumb sometimes.  Anyway ..........
After resetting my depth stop (with instruments) my Cap Guns are now back to acting just like real guns.  Trigger/Boomba.  Happy camper.

I was also having a little problem with my All Brass 12Ga.  Only took down every other target for a 12 stage match.  At 5 to 7 seconds
for every reload (minimum 2 per stage) I really racked up some seriously slow stages.  Figured out, I was loading powder, Over powder
wad, Cushion wad, Shot, Over shot card.  The result was as soon as the payload exited the barrel, it started to spread and at the same
time, the Cushion Wad was blowing a hole in the center of the pattern.  By the time the payload reached the target, the only thing hitting the target was the hole.  And a few golden BBs.  I found a bag of Remington plastic wads for a 1 Oz or 1 1/8 Oz payload that were simple
to cut the base off.  Result was a nifty little shot cup.  Fired 15 of those yesterday in test and they literally "SLAPED" the shotgun targets
down.  I load the cute little shot upright on top of the cushion wad.  Easy Peasy.

Since I retired from Gunsmithing and other careers, I have had an absolute Blast (pun intended) making the transition to BP, Cap Guns,
and All Brass Shotgun in Hammer Doubles.  I realize I'm learning stuff that "others" have known for years in the BP game, but it sure
is FUN!!

BOOMBA!!

Coffinmaker

[Blackpowder Burn]

Coffinmaker,

Interesting comments on the shotgun.  I load brass hulls with the powder, over powder card, cushion wad, shot and overshot card method (65 grains FFg and 1-1/8 oz shot).  I have read elsewhere that new manufacture shotguns often have the "donut hole" issue due to the type/amount of leade in the chamber.  My experience has been than a TTN double will take down the targets reliably with this load, but an old Remington double I have knocks them down noticeably HARDER and FASTER.

Just out of curiosity, do you or someone you know have an older shotgun you could try your original loads with?

When I use (on occasion) plastic wads, the Claybuster 1138-12 works great. It has a short cushion section, and you can use it directly without cutting off just the cup.  Load powder, over powder card, Claybuster wad, shot and over shot card.

[Coffinmaker]

BPB,
Why ... Yes .... and it just happens to be ..... TA DA .....ME!!!  The shotgun with the "donut" problem is a TTN.  I was some frustrated.
I have a turn of the "last" century J.P. Sauer hammer double that takes em down with authority with my original load.  The TTN has
3" chambers and has been dead reliable with everything else.  My Sauer has 2 1/2 inch chambers and with the old load would slap the
targets down HARD.
This coming weekend I plan to shoot BOTH and compare the performance with the "new" load with the shot cup.  Stay tuna.

Coffinmaker

[Blackpowder Burn]

Sounds really familiar! 

[wildman1]

Coffinmaker are you going to be at the Colorado shoot the week after EOT? wM1

[Lucky R. K.]

It has been my experience that it takes more spark to ignite any of the black powder substitutes.  I would recommend that you either use the real thing or go to magnum caps. The magnum caps also help out if you should get a partially stopped up nipple

With regard to shotgun wads, I use an over powder wad, fiber wad, shot, and card wad to build the shot column and shoot it in a Stoeger coach gun with 2-3/4" chambers and improved choke for both barrels. At the North Carolina State match this past weekend I did not have to makeup a single shotgun target in the 10 stage match.

Lucky

[Coffinmaker]

wM1,
Nope.  Won't be in Colorado.  Just a bit of a stretch from Pennsyltuckey 

Lucky,
Well .... Humpff.  I would like to point out, that Stoger doesn't have real honest to goodness HAMMERS!!  Blasphemous.  REAL shotguns
have hammers one can/must cock and look UBER KOOL!!  So THERE!!! 

After serious consideration, I am fairly certain part of the problem is/are 3" chambers.  Evidence is the difference in performance wit my
antique hammer gun with 2 1/2 inch chambers.  Except for the hassle of whacking off the cushion part of the plastic wad to get just
a shot cup, the shot cup has been an easy and quick fix.  Works a treat.  I suspect my Antique will take em down even better.

Since I reload my Cap Guns with a cylinder loading stand, I take the guns down between every stage.  Wipe down the cylinder face, breach face of the barrel, arbor and water table, then look thru the nipples.  I run a nipple pick (un-bent paper clip) thru any suspect
nipples.  I didn't have any problems "at all" before I added the fancy schmancy depth stop to my loading stands.  Always look to your
most recent change when a new problem crops up.  Oh, and don't always rely on Eyeball, Mark I, A1 when making a critical adjustment.
At least use a stick with a pencil mark     

[Trader Dan]

Interesting thread. Especially the brass shotgun shells.

If I may hijack this thread for a question about loading brass shotshells. Is it really necessary to use a shotcup? Can I just load the shot on top of the over powder wad and put an over shot wad on top of the shot?

[Dick Dastardly]

As regards reloading brass shotgun shells.  Here's the stack. . . Primer, powder, over powder 1/8" card, 1/2" cushion wad, shot, over shot card.  You will need larger size wads than the ones for plastic hulls.  Circle Fly has them.  You want a nice snug fit.

DD-MDA