Black powder cleaning myth

[Cemetery]

I was told once that leading happens due to the amount of other metals in your boolits.

Black powder using softer lead, and smokeless using harder lead.

I don't know the real scoop since I don't cast.

[Dick Dastardly]

Cleaned my guns after the monthly match.  Took me all of 20 minutes.  No lead, no rust, soft fouling, easy clean up.  Now my guns are cleaner than most heathen fad smokeyless shooters guns.  They say they don't have to clean their guns. . . Hah, I've seen plenty of them hang up, jam up and cuss their guns and ammo.  BP shooters seem to have more fun and less frustration.  Glad I'm on the Darkside.

DD-MDA

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Once upon a time, when Du Pont labeled the oval cans  "Gun Powder" cleaning was a chore.
Not from the powder so much as from the percussion caps that were made using Potassium Perchlorate (chlorate primers) that would rust a gun right now. Some of you old duffers like me might remember FA 70 primers available from the DCM for about $5 a thousand. They did not cost much but really needed cleaning the bore with lots of hot soapy water, or that nasty smelling GI bore cleaner.

You  really needed to clean carefully if you used the  "Extra Hot" italian caps from DGW that were extra hot all right but were extra corrosive.

Some time in the early '50s Winchester came along with the Staynless non mercuric and non corrosive primers and caps as did Remington I can't remember what the Remington caps were called  but they sure made the cleaning life  lot easier.

At any rate powder, caps and guns are so much easier to get now and because of Italian gun makers we don't have to shoot  originals, which are mostly in collections, but have fine copies to use.

Respectfully Submitted

Bunk

[Crow Choker]

Cleaned my guns after the monthly match.  Took me all of 20 minutes.  No lead, no rust, soft fouling, easy clean up.  Now my guns are cleaner than most heathen fad smokeyless shooters guns.  They say they don't have to clean their guns. . . Hah, I've seen plenty of them hang up, jam up and cuss their guns and ammo.  BP shooters seem to have more fun and less frustration.  Glad I'm on the Darkside.

DD-MDA

Ah Dick, your talking clean up in bored through cylinder hoglegs, not regular cap percussion ones. There's a world of difference in the time and necessity of clean up, I know, I shoot and clean both. Same can be said with the time that it takes to clean a regular muzzleloader vs a BP shootin cartridge rifle. Even my Open Top and conversion revolvers get a through cleaning after use. Percussion cylinders can be and are a pain to clean. I can shoot my SL firing revolvers, wipe em down and put em away for a later clean up and shooting with the confidence they won't have the rust potential that any BP revolvers using black powder have. I've shot 1000's of rds using SL and have never had a jam. No matter if your using BP or SL, regular cleaning and maintenance is a must. No matter what type/brand of BP you shoot, it is not as clean as any SL I've ever seen. Now I will admit that a revolver that's had BP shot in has a bore that is easier to clean than one that's had SL used in it with a poor combination of lead hardness, powder and amount of powder used in it and a lot of lead and hard residue are in the bore.  Maybe the SL shooters you are talking about are just lazy. I'm glad I'm on the Darkside too, love shooting BP shootin replica's of Old Colts and Remington's, love shootin my SL firing guns too, but to hype BP as a cure all to shooting ills, that it is 'holy', easier to clean than SL, is a pitch that can confuse new or want-to-be BP shooters. BP/SL powders--both have their good traits and bad--advantages and disadvantages. Ya have to learn how to overcome the bad and take advantage of the good with both types. No bad feelin's to ya or any body else who thinks BP is the 'bees knees', just reality.   

[Bunk Stagnerg]

After shooting with Gun Powder or one of the substitutes and provided you can get to the breech end of the barrel like an open top revolver, DB shotgun, or a Sharps or similar configurations rifle, just stick one end of the barrel in a container of moose milk, put a bore mop of correct size on a cleaning rod and give the barrel 6 or seven pumps and it is clean. A cartridge cylinder is done the same way.
For a percussion cylinder remove the cones and drop them in a container with nitro solvent, then put the cylinder with the chambers up in the moose milk container and use the bore mop the same way in each chamber. Allow all the pieces to drain and wipe everything down with an oiled cloth and you have clean and oiled bores and exteriors. Drain and dry the cones, grease the threads and screw them back in.

Easy, simple and fast The lever action rifle bore takes a little more time, just use a damp bore snake pulled from the breech to muzzle which pulls all the loose stuff out the front then follow with a couple of Ballistol wet patches and the deed is done.

The barrels on top strap actions are done the same as a rifle and the cylinders are done the same way as described above.

Go crack the cap on a cold one and enjoy the rest of the day.

Respectfully submitted,
Bunk

[Crow Choker]

Buck: Pretty close to the way I do my cleaning. I usually use a 5 qt ice cream bucket with hot soapy water for the cleaning, followed up with 'Moose Milk', swab dry, blow with compressed air, then swab with Ballistol. Unless I plan on shooting a revolver within several days, I always pull the nipples, clean, blow with compressed air, dab a little bit of anti-seize on the threads, and reassemble. I tried the route several times of just cleaning around the nipples as good as possible even if not planning on shooting the piece for a while. There is just to much of a hard black residue that builds and almost impossible to get at unless the nipples are removed. Feel it is a prime place for corrosion to find a place if not removed. Top strap revolvers and lever rifles are handled pretty much like you described. I don't shoot big bore blk powder rifle, but do shot a 45 caliber cap lock muz-loader and for a good cleaning, remove the barrel and nipple and stick the breech end in the pail and run a swab up and down the bore.

I twice used the ice cream bucker filled with hot soapy water to clean the percussion cylinders by blowing them with compressed air while the cylinder was suspended in the hot soapy water. Was effective, but it was messy. A friend suggested if I try it again to wear a slicker and goggles. I've been outside using a string trimmer and I did pour a cold one of ice tea when I came in and consumed while typing this. Have a good day. CC

[wildman1]

I was told once that leading happens due to the amount of other metals in your boolits.

Black powder using softer lead, and smokeless using harder lead.

I don't know the real scoop since I don't cast.

Leading usually happens when your powder load is not heavy enough or your bullet is too hard to obturate and seal the chamber. Gas cutting occurs and then you have leading. wM1

[will52100]

I've got a Taylor's Smoke Wagon and it leads bad at the forcing cone, with either smokeless or black powder rounds.  This it honestly the first gun I've had that has leading issues.  With smokeless or black powder most of mine might have a bit of lead in the barrel, but it comes out with one or two bore snake pulls, think a few tiny slivers.

As for black powder rusting barrels, I once left a pietta 1860 army on a shelf in the house uncleaned for over a decade.  Long story, this was pre internet days and a poor quality gun and no replacement parts to be had.  A number of years ago I found places like VTI and got parts for it and cleaned it up to see if it was salvageable.  To my amazement the thick and heavy white crud all over the gun came off with little issue and the metal cleaned up bright and shiny, no rust what so ever.  Black powder fouling is only corrosive if exposed to moister and is hydroscopic.

On thing I've started doing is making a few "clean out rounds"  Basically smokeless rounds loaded with big lube bullets lubed with black powder lube.  If I start getting a bit more fouling in the barrel than I want I run a few of these through to knock it down and wet the bore.  Or if I'm going to shoot a few smokeless rounds I'll run a few through to clean the bore a bit for them.  Not sure, but so far it seems to make clean up a little easier.

[Flint]

When Colt re-introduced the SAA after WWII, they changed the bore from 454 to 451, the same as the tooling for the 45ACP.  BUT... Colt did not change the diameter of the cylinder throat to match the downsized bullet.  This results in a lot of blow-by around the bullet as it passes to the forcing cone, and the blow-by melts the base of the lead bullet, which smears the bore.  I found the 45 Colt revolver leads the bore rather more than other calibers, and many other "clones".  My solution is to use moly coated bullets such as Bear Creek brand, that resist the hot gasses better than raw lead alloy.  Now my colt made Colts don't lead the bores like they used to.

[Dave T]

How do those moly coated bullets do with black powder? My experience (from 25+ years ago) was that you need a special lube like SPG to keep fouling soft when shooting BP.

Dave

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

SPG and the likes certainly seem to work better, but I tried some of my standard lube TAC 1, with bullets from an NOE 44-200 mould which has a large lube groove. I go a soft, black mud coming out of the muzzle and after.around 20 shots the fouling was entry soft.



  CHT

[zymurgeist]

I think it's all myth. Cleaning no matter what powder you use is just not that hard and there are no magic short cuts. I'll use simple green for to complete degreasing and moose milk for anything else. Corrosion is a function of neglect and climate. If you live in a swamp or near a beach you're going to have problems. I think black powder gets blamed for a lot of damage it didn't do.

[will52100]

I think black powder gets blamed for a lot of damage it didn't do.

Exactly!

[Flint]

Moly bullets, at least the Bear Creek brand, used to have a grease groove, and could be lubed with SPG, but they eliminated the grooves (adding 5 grs to the weight) and it no longer works as well.