What "filler" to use for 44-40 BP

[Trader Dan]

Howdy pards!

Shot my first CAS match this past Sunday. What a blast!!!!! I was thinking about loading BP in all of my ammo but that has passed. I KNOW I am going to load BP in my ammo.

So what I need to know is this. What filler should I use as I am going to load 25 grains of 2f Goex under a Mav Dutchman bullet. I have read corn starch, grits, and Cream of Wheat. I bought some Corn Starch and my wife has planted doubts in my pea brain as to the safety of using corn starch as a filler. My contention is that it will burn in the barrel anyway.

[Coffinmaker]

OK!!  WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE.  You WILL be Assimilated!!

First, most all the filler materials you use will combust.  Gets pretty hot in there.  Your going to get lots of suggestions, but when I used fillers, I really liked Cream-0-Wheat.  Burns very clean.

Just an additional sandwich to chew on.  Recoil is a demonstration of simple physics.  The propellant charge is only part of the equation.
PAYLOAD is a very important consideration.  Simply dropping the powder charge will not necessarily make a BIG difference in felt
recoil.  Changing the WEIGHT of the payload as well as it's velocity will yield the best results.  You may want to consider reducing the
weight of your bullet.  My personal bullet of choice in .44 is the 165Gr 44 Slim.  I've had VERY good results with them and they carry
a TON of lube down the bore, Sufficient for rifle or handgun.  YMMV

Coffinmaker

[Montana Slim]

I recommend an additional 5-6 grains of FF. 
Much simpler to load than adding a filler & ensuring sufficient compression that the two different ingredients do not mix. Time at the loading bench reduced and much happier for the reduced complexity.

BTW, I use roughly 31 grains of FF and the 200 gr Big Lube (sized .428) in my 44-40 and 18 grains FF + same bullet (sized .430) in my 44 Russian cartridges.

You'll be admired for your fortitude .......& showers of spark & flame.

Slim

[Trader Dan]

Understand about the recoil. I am going to use 25 grains by weight of BP because that load comes recommended to me and why do I need full house loads for CAS? We only shoot 25 yards most of the time. And, I will save on Black Powder usage. For some reason it is hard to find around here, Fort Worth/Dallas area. I live on the far north west side of Fort Worth in a town called Saginaw. I have to drive to the east side of Dallas to buy it. About a 150 mile round trip. I suppose I could mail order it.

Thanks for the information.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have used as little as 21 grains of GOEX FFFg, plus C.O.W. my CHRONY says the MV was the same as a full load of FFg, about 740fps from a 5.5 barrel.

[Grapeshot]

I'm sorry but fillers don't do it for me.  The recoil in a .44-40 rifle/carbine is next to non existent to me.  I use a 2.2 cc Lee Dipper to drop the charge through the case belling die into the case.  I then lower the ram and put a .44 disk of card stock, punched from a cereal box, on top of the powder in the case mouth and raise the ram to compress the powder and then I seat a 200 grain MAV Dutchman BLB and crimp in a separate crimp die.  The resulting cartridge is both accurate and produces lots of smoke, blast and fire out the front of the muzzle. 

I realize that the use of fillers is an economical decision to use less powder so one can make more rounds to shoot.  Just my own take on this.

[Tornado]

I quit using grits or cereals after I read that these fillers may absorb moisture over time and then expand.  This would increase pressure.  I started using ground ground corn cob, it should be a more inert filler.

[Coffinmaker]

Ah So ......
Tornado,
The Moisture absorption problem was noted some years back in Some Smokeless loadings.  BP didn't seem to have the problem.

Grapeshot,
Why'd ya bother.  When one asks a question, they don't necessarily like have a finger poked in their eye.

Slim,
Same as the above.  Zero contribution.

Coffinmaker

[Dick Dastardly]

Lighter boolit, coarser powder, lightly compressed powder charge, these all help ease recoil.  Ground corn cob filler, Cream of Wheat, sawdust all make acceptable fillers to take up space.  Be careful using sawdust in very dry places because it can start fires.
 I'm not aware of any short version of 44-40 brass for the 44 Cal. guns like the 45 Cowboy Special is for 45 Colt guns so I'm thinkn' you are stuck with one brass size/volume.  Give some thought to using 1½ Fg powder for a slower burn.

The Big Lube®LLC Slim44 bullet is lighter at around 160 grains than the 200 grain Mav Dutchman Big Lube®LLC bullet.  Give some of them a try before buying the mold to make sure the truncated cone design of the 44Slim feeds well in your rifles.

Welcome to the Dark Side!

DD-MDA

[Fingers McGee]

I recommend an additional 5-6 grains of FF. 
Much simpler to load than adding a filler & ensuring sufficient compression that the two different ingredients do not mix. Time at the loading bench reduced and much happier for the reduced complexity.

BTW, I use roughly 31 grains of FF and the 200 gr Big Lube (sized .428) in my 44-40 and 18 grains FF + same bullet (sized .430) in my 44 Russian cartridges.

You'll be admired for your fortitude .......& showers of spark & flame.

Slim

What Slim said ^^^  although my 44-40 load weighs in with 32 grains of fffg

[Coffinmaker]

And we have multiple WINNERS!!

[Scattered Thumbs]

If I wanted to reduce recoil in .44WCF. I'd still wouldn't use a filler. I'd change from FFFG to FFG.

But, I do use ground corn cob as a filler in M.L.A.I.C. target events.

[Grapeshot]

Ah So ......

Grapeshot,
Why'd ya bother.  When one asks a question, they don't necessarily like have a finger poked in their eye.

Coffinmaker

Wasn't trying to poke a finger in anyone's eye.  Fillers, like grits, cornmeal etc. have a tendency to cause problems down the road.  I was suggesting that the cartridge is small enough to fill, compress, seat and shoot eliminating the extra steps. 

Question?

[Montana Slim]

Here's a few more details behind my non-useful information:

First off, good choice with the MAV big lube. It actually takes a bit more space in the cartridge and allows a slight reduction in powder (compared to nominal 200 grain pills).

I don't/won't hand-dip for a high use cartridge like 44-40, so this is part of the rationale partially behind my response.
Hand-dipping, or removing a powder-charged case...moving it to a secondary measure, and then dispensing the filler (or scooping), then returning it to loading station. I'm sure that method will get old for anyone...especially if they add up the small cost of powder vs. time, cost of filler, and opportunity for spills and/or mistakes.  Thus, additional time debunking the cartridges which are suspect of defect, detecting and resolving. I've made mistakes when loading and can say for sure I'm not big on pulling BP rounds apart.

Yep, I've even made reduced 44-40 loads. These for use in a open-top Merwin Hulbert and some Belgian made  knock-offs of various revolvers. I hate the thought of fragmenting an old revolver cylinder.

It's true, EVERYONE will make a mistake during their loading process...trust me. Even the big outfits make stupid/horrible errors.
Sorry I can't share the details.
Consistent ammo is THE most important element at your next shooting event, and second are having firearms that pass all safety & operational function checks.

Even if my advice/preferences are not those of our readers, hopefully the potential issues will lead to higher caution and improved practices on their part.

As an aside.. for those that DO use fillers, please give a brief summary of the equipment / process that is working for you (loading blocks, single stage loading, dipping, dropping, etc). One successful fellow I know personally uses hand-punched wads (very thick) and cuts his charge down to 18 grains. These wads can be dropped into the cartridge on the loading press. Quite easy, but that is a lot of wads to punch or expense (if one had to purchase them). Oh, be sure to drop them OVER the powder, NOT under.

Slim,
Who still likes the KISS principle

[Trader Dan]

Ah So ......
Tornado,
The Moisture absorption problem was noted some years back in Some Smokeless loadings.  BP didn't seem to have the problem.

Grapeshot,
Why'd ya bother.  When one asks a question, they don't necessarily like have a finger poked in their eye.

Slim,
Same as the above.  Zero contribution.

Coffinmaker

Coffinmaker, hey it is OK. I am open to all comments and suggestions. I have shot muzzle loaders for years and it has been yuears since I shot a muzzle stuffer. But BP cartridge is new to me. And honestly, I find it quit confusing because there are so many different ways of making cartridges. I can afford the B,. I just don'tl ike the long drive to buy it. Dallas traffic sucks and I am being kind.

I find that 35 grains of BP in my revolvers is a little stiff. The reason I know this is I bought some BP load from Buffalo. I took one of them apart and it measure 35 grains by weight. I don't remembe what the bullet weighed.

Thanks for all of the advice fo far. Please keep the comment and advice coming because I want to learn.   

[wildman1]

Recreational shooting of full loads of BP in a revolver is a hoot. However in shooting a match full loads in a 45 Colt or 44/40 revolver can be a bit tiring. wM1

[fourfingersofdeath]

I have found more fffg to be a good filler, Bwahahahaha!

[Navy Six]

Since you specifically mentioned wanting to use a 25 gr load of FF Goex, a load I've used in the past is close. It is 27 gr FF Goex, Circle Fly card wad, 1/8" grease cookie(from a lube ribbon extruder) topped off with a Lyman #427098. Yes, its time consuming to create these rounds and a lot of people don't like the grease cookie for this reason. I am retired now a don't care how long it takes as I find crafting ammo for my purpose very therapeutic. I won't go into why I finally went to this combination(NOT a gamer), but I am able to shoot a two day match with absolutely no attention to the guns. This past weekend I shot some ammo in a match that was dated 2005 (it must have been stashed in a forgotten corner somewhere). Every round went off without a hitch.

[Blackpowder Burn]

+1 what Fingers and Montana Slim said. That's my standard load and I shoot a bazillion of 'em.  Simple, straight forward process with no fillers, wads, etc.  And the load has proven very accurate.  I can shoot a 2-day match without touching my guns.

As far as powder supplies - check Powder In. (www.powderinc.com).  You can order it for a much lower price than buying it locally.  Just remember that the price/pound they quote is all inclusive, delivered to the door (frieght and hazmat fee included).  You can order in 5, 10 or 25 pound (full case) quantities.  I recently ordered a case and they are having their website rebuilt, and it is still a little glitchy.  Just call them up and order if you have a problem with it - super nice people.

[Four Eyes Henry]

I use cous cous in a Lee auto disk on my Piggyback 1

Loading this way for years....