Dragoon Problem

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I posted this here and the gunsmithing forum I am not sure where would be proper

This is a puzzle and I hope someone has an answer. The gun in question is a brand new Uberti Third Model Dragoon according to the date code was made in 2015.

I bought it brand new in the box. It was very difficult to remove the barrel from the frame but it cleaned up nicely. Installing the barrel on the frame was extremely hard requiring a few light taps with a soft hammer to seat the barrel on the frame. No heavy blows just light taps.

When firing it with 35 grains FFFg GOEX, a lubricated wad and a soft cast ball it grouped about six inches high and six inches right.
I widened the rear sight slot a little with no change in impact. Height is something I am not worried about, but right now I am using a rear sight position about half way between the original rear sight notch and the left edge of the hammer and am still not centering the group. Even with the primitive sights and my not so great eyesight I got a 20 round group at 20 yards about the size of a playing card so I am satisfied it is fairly accurate. Regulating the powder charge might improve that.

Is it possible the barrel is not in proper alignment with the frame causing the difficulty in installing the barrel and when the wedge is installed the barrel is forced off to the right? I installed a small washer in the arbor hole because when I first reassembled the gun and put in the wedge the cylinder would not turn but the washer solved that problem. I can't find my feeler gauge, but the gun worked with no problem after 60 rounds without cleaning and the barrel clearance is quite small.

I have JB "welded" a make shift sight on top of the barrel and will cut an "eye ball" center notch to see if that brings the group to center. If it does my intention is to make a shallow dove tail on the barrel bridge and install a small sight similar to the on my 1871 open top revolver.

Any thoughts or ideas would be helpfu.l
Your obt' svt
Bunk

[Coffinmaker]

There is a place to at least start. 
You will need to clean up the arbor to the point the barrel assembly will slide on and off without bashing it together.  As long as you have to bang it back together, it will never go together the same way twice.  Once it will slide on and off, you can correct the barrel to arbor fit.

You WILL need a/your feeler gauge.  if when you mount the barrel the barrel/cylinder gap changes, your not done.  You may need to
continue adding shims to the barrel/arbor fit.  You won't be complete until you seat the wedge and the barrel/cylinder gap does not
Change.  When done, the Arbor will seat fully and bottom of the barrel lug at the locator pins will also seat fully. 

You will also need to determine if the Arbor was installed in the frame squarely, it is also important the bore of the Arbor hole in the barrel lug be concentric with the bore of the barrel.  Also that the locating step at the bottom of the lug is at right angles to the bore.

Remember.  Uberti Open Top design guns are just KITS!!  Pretty, nice looking KITS!!  Sort of like a jigsaw puzzle.

Coffinmaker

[hellgate]

Quite a few of the original Colt percussion revolvers that I have seen or viewed photos of have dovetail front sights installed so I suspect the windage problem was a common one. Take a look at some museum and antique auction pieces and see how they have been modified. My very first C&B is a '61 Navy by Uberti that shot way off windage wise and i pretty much buggered up the hammer trying to "sight it in". I took it to a gunsmith who took a rear sight, contoured it to the barrel and epoxied it onto the back or the barrel. He then told me to shoot it, file a little on a notch, shoot again and file some more til it was lined up. That way I got it sighted in. I'd recommend a taller dovetailed front sight that you can tap over to make it line up and tap back square when you go to sell it. BTW, I still have the '61 Navy bought in 1968. You may find a rear mounted notch sight that works for you. Just take a look at some originals and go with what you think looks right.

[Navy Six]

I can't add anything to the replies you've already received, but if it makes you feel any better, both my Uberti 2nd Model Dragoons of very recent vintage displayed the same tight barrel to arbor situation.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

It appears the problem was caused by improper spacing between the arbor and the two barrel pins one of which was slightly crooked.. There was a small burr in the arbor which #800 emery grit strip removed.
A little judicious filing of the high spots on the pins found with Prussian blue and the cleaning up of the mushroom top one pin caused by application on installation of the old adage "don't use force, use a bigger hammer" (Thanks Guido) the barrel is a snug push fit on the frame. Checking zero will be done soon.
If it still shoots right, my intentions are to dove tail a sight on the barrel bridge, which is where it should have been in the first place, then grind the hammer down to give sight clearance and let the good times roll.

Thanks Pards for the help on this.
Bunk   

[LonesomePigeon]

I have an Uberti Walker, datecode CM for 2014, which I bought new. The barrel was very hard to remove and even more difficult to put back on. When I first removed it some metal chips came out of one of the two little guide holes in the barrel. The hole that the chips came out of looks to be slightly off to one side of where it should be, which apparently caused it to shave metal off the corresponding frame pin. Also the bore on this gun is off center. To my eye it looks to be centered at the breech end but at the muzzle end it is obviously high and left. Oddly enough this gun shoots high and right, not left. From a rest, at 25 yards it's about 6" high and 2" right so it's not that bad. I am hoping I can file the rear sight notch. I've never done that so I will keep an eye on this thread as well as do a search for others.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Let duelist 1954 give you a method. It worked for me. Try this you tube video



He has loads of neat stuff
Bunk

[Good Troy]

To my eye it looks to be centered at the breech end but at the muzzle end it is obviously high and left. Oddly enough this gun shoots high and right, not left.

If the muzzle is left of center, I would expect it to shoot to the right.  Front sight adjustments are made opposite direction of point of impact correction.

[LonesomePigeon]

My mistake Good Troy. I just didn't describe it very well. If you're looking at the bore from the muzzle end the bore appears high and to the right. Which means from the shooter's perspective the bore would be pointed high and to the left. However I may have spoken to soon because just now I noticed that there is some finish wear on the outside edge of the muzzle which may only be creating the illusion that the bore is not centered. I really can't be sure now so I will have to recant my statement that the bore is not centered.

The misalignment of the guide pins was definitely not an illusion. I had to stick a dowel down the bore and hammer it with a rubber mallet to get the barrel off. Once the barrel was off it was impossible to get it back on completely. Even hammering it with a rubber mallet would still leave a small gap between the frame and barrel.

I ended up sending this gun to Mike "Goon" and he fixed it so that the barrel now goes on all the way as long as you tap the wedge in tight. He did that along with correcting the arbor length and giving it a super sweet action. Before I sent it to Mike I was getting like 8" patterns at 10 yards but now it shoots 2 to 3" groups at 25 yards. If I can file the rear sight notch correctly I think this will be a super sweet gun.

[Good Troy]

Mike did a great job on my Colt 1860 copies, too!

[45 Dragoon]

Thanks Good Troy and LonesomePigeon!!

LP, thats awesome that your groups closed up like that! Sounds like it's running like it's sposed to!!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks