Maximum safe BP performance out of 44-40

[TUCO-the-ratt]

I'm sure this is covered somewhere in the archived posts but I couldn't find it.

I'm loading BP for my Uberti 66 in 44-40. I'd like to come up with a maximum performing load for use in hunting.  I read somewhere on this forum a couple of years ago that somebody was getting around 1400 fps with the 44-40 using BP. (not sure what weight bullet was used) I'm shooting a 200 grain Laser Cast Brand bullet, 39 gr of Kick 2F drop tubed and compressed around 3/16 inch with the bullet over thin cardboard wad. I chronographed these at 1150fps ave. That's fine and is probably close to historical performance for the cartridge but I wondered what I was reading before about somebody getting around 1400 fps.

So if anybody knows what is the historical performance of the 44-40?

Is FFF safe in a 66 rifle and is that the way to go for speed?

Not trying to turn it into a 44 mag just finding out what is safely possible.

[Lefty Dude]

Three F is all I load in my 73, should be fine for your 66 also.

Check out the Forum posts by 44WCF, he has done extensive hunting load reviews for the 44-40.

[Montana Slim]

Petty simple,....switch to Swiss 3F powder & you'll be "all-you-can-be" with BP loads in the 44-40.

Slim

[Blackpowder Burn]

You will likely have fouling problems with that Lasercast bullet if it isn't lubed with plenty of BP compatible lube.  If so, and you don't cast, try the Big Lube Bullets from Slim (www.whyteleatherworks.com).

Otherwise, stoke it up with Swiss or Olde Eynsford FFFg and let 'er rip...........

[TUCO-the-ratt]

Thanks for the advice guys! I'll give the FFF a try.

[Cliff Fendley]

1400 fps might be a push. I have cronied 2f and 3f loads of Swiss and Old Eynsford. I can't recall exact without looking but as I recall the 2f loads were in the upper 1200 fps and the 3f loads were in the lower 1300 fps. That was with an Accurate 215C bullet which weighed over 200 grain. A 200 grain bullet might hit 1400 but only testing would say for sure.

My powder charge was 36 grains by weight.

[Coffinmaker]

Lets remember, your dealing with a BRASS FRAME here.  While I seriously doubt you can do catastrophic damage with BP, the rifle was never intended to play with the Big Dogs.

You can safely get to somewhere around 1300+ fps with 3f, my suggestion for a 200Gr bullet would be a MAV 44 with a really big lube
groove.  Lots of lube in a rifle is good thing.  I would however, in the interest of preserving your rifle, recommend you give consideration
to the .44 Slim at 165Gr.  Less stress on the rifle.

The toggle links are well strong enough to take the load of a 1300+ fps load, the frame lugs that carry the pivot pins may not.  The end
radius of the toggle link is suppose to but up against the frame when in battery.  Doesn't always happen.  Usually some slop.  That putts the load directly on the radius of the pivot pin.  A very small area indeed.  You may find yourself shooting your rifle Loose in a short period of time.  If you want to go fast, forego the brass rifle and opt for a '73.

Coffinmaker

[Dick Dastardly]

Although I shoot the Mav Dutchman almost exclusively in my 44 Magnum guns with Black Powder, I'm thinkn' that for more speed and less wear and tear on your toggle link gun the 44Slim might be your best choice.

DD-MDA

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 The problem with the bullets with large lube grooves is they're longer and take up valuable powder space. That said, I've used the NOE 432-200, which cast at 220 grs., over 2.5cc of Swiss 3f and averaged 1399 fps in my Uberti 44-40 Sporting Rifle.


EDIT:
MODERATOR NOTE: We do not discuss any aspect of smokeless powder here in the Den. Check the stickies at the top of the page for guidance.

Here's pretty good thread on the subject, in which W44WCF aka W30WCF provides some guidance, that may have some answers for you: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62144

 CHT

[will52100]

I shoot a Uberti Henry in 45 colt.  My standard load is a 250 grain PRS big lube bullet cast from 20-1 lead/tin and backed by 38 grains of 3F Graf's powder.  I was nervous about increasing head space at the start and kept a close watch on it.  I stopped counting rounds and checking head space after 5000 rounds.  The frame should be fine with heavy black powder loads, if you do get an increase in headspace there's something wrong with the toggle fit or pin alignment.  I will admit I haven't fired more than a couple hundred rounds loaded with Swiss powder, it's got a bit more kick than normal BP.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

EDIT:
MODERATOR NOTE: We do not discuss any aspect of smokeless powder here in the Den. Check the stickies at the top of the page for guidance.

My apologies. I'd run across a couple of threads here discussing duplex loads with smokeless, that included specific data for smokeless powder, and didn't think anything about doing the same thing.

CHT

[Cuts Crooked]

No apologies needed my friend!

I did a quick search and found that all but one of those threads were dated before the rule about no smokeless discussion was instituted. The one since then has been locked and a disclaimer added to it to help prevent future instances.

My thanx fer yer being so understanding!