2400 in the 45 Colt

[Dave T]

I'm about to start load development for smokeless 45 Colt rounds using 250g bullets and 2400 powder. My intention is to produce a duplicate of the performance I once got of the original black powder loading from a 4-3/4" barrel 1st Gen Colt. Now I'm shooting a USFA of the same barrel length and want the same 865 fps I used to get from sulfur, saltpeter and charcoal.

Anyone here ever used 2400 in this chambering? I have 11 to 12 pounds of it on hand and can't see looking for another powder when I've got this under the loading bench.

Dave

[Sagebrush Burns]

It's been a while and I don't have the data handy, but I have loaded about that level using 2400.  You'll need to do some research but I think it was in the vicinity of 16.0 grains.  At that level 2400 burns pretty dirty but is otherwise entirely satisfactory and very accurate.

[cheatin charlie]

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=9

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

It seems it can be done, but IMHO it is on the slow side. If you were to be using it in a rifle or carbine, I'd say okay. I use HERCO for the same reason, in all 3 weapons, rifle pistol & shotgun,but even then I consider it slow.

Alliant says its okay, so ....

[Dave T]

Thanks for the replays everyone.

Sagebrush, you said 2400 "burns pretty dirty" but was "very accurate". It can't be as dirty as BP and being accurate is a plus.

Sir Charles, can you explain what you mean when you say you consider it "on the slow side"?

Dave

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Thanks for the replays everyone.

Sagebrush, you said 2400 "burns pretty dirty" but was "very accurate". It can't be as dirty as BP and being accurate is a plus.

Sir Charles, can you explain what you mean when you say you consider it "on the slow side"?

Dave

It's called "burn rate", the rapidity of generation of gas from the burning powder. Generally, smaller cases use faster powders, but shotguns do as well. I have posted a chart, for comparison. Usually powders like 2400 are for small rifle cartridges, but also work for magnum pistol and shotgun. This is way overly simplified, which is why we always refer to the reloading tables for guidance.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

[Dave T]

I understand burn rate. I thought you were talking about velocity (LOL). I find I misunderstand what I read on the internet way more often than I do when I talk to people face to face. Might be a sign of not doing so well with the digital age...or just getting old. (smile)

Dave

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I too resemble....

What were we discussing?

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 I've used quite a bit of 2400 in both the .44 Special and 45 Colt. I never had much luck in the accuracy/consistency department loading with middle-of-the-road charges. It seems to do best with heavier loads. I've gotten very good accuracy loading 16.5 grs. under a 265 gr. cast SWC (Source: Handloader #190, #213 & #246) in my Uberti Bisley, but that load exceeds 1000 fps from my 5 1/2" barrel. You might want to try around 15.0 grs.

  I don't blame you a bit for wanting to use up your powder. I'd suggest a heavy crimp and possibly even a magnum primer to help with consistency.

Please post your results as I'd be very interested.

  CHT

[Dave T]

I'll be glad to report what happens. As I'm sure most of you know, finding powder these days can be any where from frustrating to down right maddening. With well over 10 pounds of 2400 on hand I figurer it's worth some load development to see what happens. And, it will probably work fine in the 44 WCF in my '73 if I keep the velocities to black powder levels of 1200-1300 fps. Again, might as well use that stuff since I have it.

Dave

[Cliff Fendley]

I've used 2400 in 45 colt with good results.

[44 centerfire]

 Yes, fills the case a little bit more than Unique.....pretty much. A good thing.  Actually 2400 is my favorite pistol powder and would not hesitate to use in 7 1/2 .45 Colt.....happy shooting Dave.  Consider yourself lucky....haven't been able to buy 2400 powder around here for about 4 years .  

I fill the big .45 case with cotton filler from vitamin pill bottles.

44 centerfire

[Dave T]

Been several weeks since I commented on this thread but I have been setting up a loading machine, researching loads with 2400 in the 45 Colt and then loading small batches for testing. I finally found a day when my decrepit bad back seemed willing to let me venture out on the range with all the paraphernalia necessary to do some chronographing. The results were disappointing but educational.

I tested 4 loads of 2400: 15g; 15.5g; 16g and 16.5g all behind a Berry's 250g bullet. I initially shot them from a 4-3/4" USFA through the Skycreens of my old Oehler Model 33, set 10 ft. from the muzzle.

15g averaged 790 fps, with an Extreme Spread of 66 and Standard Deviation of 29. Not bad but not quite where I wanted to be. I was hopeful about the next load of 15.5g.

It delivered an average of 881 fps, a little hot from that barrel length, and was quite inconsistent. ES was 118 and Sd was 49. Since I was there I tried the next load of 16g, expecting it to be even hotter.

It wasn't with an average of 879 fps, and ES of 136 and Sd of 51. These are getting worse, i.e. more inconsistent.

And finally 16.5g, which as expected was too hot for my purposes, but was a more consistent load than the previous two, averaging 933 fps with ES of 64 and Sd of 28.

If I just wanted a 1000 fps 45 Colt load with 250-260g bullets for something like a Ruger I would be all over further load development with 2400. But, since my goal was to duplicate black powder performance as closely as possible with a smokeless powder I'm going to have to look elsewhere.

Dave

[Trailrider]

I would recommend trying Hodgdon's Universal or ATK Unique.  With these bullets and the shorter barrels, those powders will just about duplicate BP velocities and the powders are fast enough and ignition properties with Winchester WLP primers good.  As always, I recommend in the strongest possible terms, have good bullet tension by the case mouth, and roll crimp firmly over the front driving band depending on bullet length and configuration.  Crimp ! Crimp! CRIMP!

[Dave T]

Trailrider,

The prime reason behind my trying 2400 was because I had a bunch of it on hand. The secondary reason was because it filled the voluminous case of the 45 Colt better than faster powders. I'm not inclined to look for a load that involves a powder that is hard to find (which includes about everything these days) when I have another option on hand.

Because I loaded 45 ACP with W231 for years (20+) I have lots of it on hand. It is faster than I like and doesn't fill that big case very well but I've got it so I might as well try it before I start looking for stuff I can't find (LOL).

Thanks for the suggestion none-the-less!

Dave

[Grapeshot]

I agree with the 16.5 load in a .45 Colt.  I have used that load with a 250/255 grain cast bullet out of my M25-5 S&W.  It was accurate and I did not get the leading I got from faster powders.  The punch of the initial ignition upset my bullets to fill the chamber throat and blocks the gas from flame cutting the base.  I retired the Smith years ago because of that problem, oversized chamber throats and hard bullets.  Now I used a softer cast bullet rather than the Linotype I had been using.

[w44wcf]

Trailrider,

The prime reason behind my trying 2400 was because I had a bunch of it on hand. The secondary reason was because it filled the voluminous case of the 45 Colt better than faster powders. I'm not inclined to look for a load that involves a powder that is hard to find (which includes about everything these days) when I have another option on hand.

Because I loaded 45 ACP with W231 for years (20+) I have lots of it on hand. It is faster than I like and doesn't fill that big case very well but I've got it so I might as well try it before I start looking for stuff I can't find (LOL).

Thanks for the suggestion none-the-less!

Dave

Dave,
231 is a good 45 Colt powder.  Winchester recommended  7.1 grs under a 250 gr bullet.

I experimented with 2400 many years ago (30+) in the .45 Colt and found that adding a paper disc over the powder to keep it positioned to the back of the case improved accuracy.  I used a wad punch and target paper to make the discs.  I did not have a chronograph at that time though.

w44wcf