Let's talk Transistions #1

[Camille Eonich]

Improving on transistions is one of the best ways to pick up speed in a match so let's share some ideas on how you plan your transistions on based certain gun sequences.  Also share with us why you choose the transistions that you do.  I'll post several different gun sequences in several different threads.  Let the discussions begin.   

For this discussion we'll leave target sequences out.


First sequence.

Pistols loaded with 5 rounds each and holstered.
Rifle and shotgun staged on table 2.
Shooter starts at table 1.

Start at the table on the left with two pistols holstered.  Engage the pistol targets with the first pistol.  Move to a table 2 in the center of the berm, where rifle and shotgun are staged, pick up your rifle and engage the rifle targets.  Make rifle safe.  Pick up your shotgun and engage the shotgun targets. Make shotgun safe.  Move to the far right side of the berm and engage the pistol targets with the remaining pistol.


Example of what I am looking for in replies.

I would shoot my left pistol first.  Run to the table and pick up my rifle with using both hands.  Shoot the rifle and lay it down with my left hand.  As I put the rifle down with my left hand the right is going for the shotgun.  As soon as the rifle is on the table the left hand goes for shells.  After I shoot the shotgun I lay it down with my left hand and then start toward the far right of the berm to shoot my last pistol.  My right hand is on my right pistol and as soon as I get in position to shoot and can safely draw the right pistol without breaking the 170, I do so and am ready to fire.


Why I would do this in this way:

Since I will be turning right after I shoot my first pistol, drawing the left one first gives me a bit of extra leeway with the 170 so that I can be holstering as I turn to run. 

I pick up my rifle with the right hand through the lever and my left on the forearm.  I like to squat and pick it up because I can get the sight on the target quicker.  By squating I don't have to get to full upright before I start shooting like I would if I bent over from the waist.  The rifle goes down with the left hand because I then have the right hand empty to grab the shotgun by the wrist and bring it to shooting position.  Again I set it down with the left because it's just easier for me to do it that way.  The rest should be self-explanatory.

[Stump Water]

Sounds right to me.   

Only thing I'll add is that my '97 will be laid on the table port-down. This will prevent Mr. Murphy from guiding one of the spent cases falling from my hat into it's action. 

[Doc Shapiro]

Long guns will be staged with the grips off the table for easy pick up.  I'll start with my right pistol.  I'm right handed and get that gun to bear quickly.  Since I have to move to the next position, there's time to holster.  The last pistol requires movement before shooting, so that will be an easy draw with the left hand and transfer.

After the first pistol, I'll holster on my way to the table.  Pick up rifle with right hand and shoot.  Rifle will go down with the left hand and that will grab shells.  Right hand will bring shotgun up until the left hand (with shells) catches up.  Then load and shoot the shotgun targets.  Shotgun down with left hand as I start moving to the next position.  Draw on the way and transfer pistol to right hand. 

How's that?

Doc

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I would shoot it almost the same as you, Camille. The exceptions being: Rifle staged lying on the left side. I have a sadle ring carbine and the grip is elevated slightly that way and easy to grasp. I shoot a SxS double and would have it also lying on the left side. I'd pick up the rifle with my right hand and catch the forestock with my left on the way up. I rack it after it is against my shoulder so I don't have to move it a second time after it's ready to fire. I load my shotgun with my left hand and would pick it up the same as you. Pistol work basically the same. I shoot double duelist and don't switch hands with either handgun.

[Irish Red O'Toole]

Doc's way is how I picture it im my head.  In actual practice, I usually look like an octopus on acid....arms and guns going every which way.  Not to mention shells, props, hat, glasses...etc.

[Prof. Bullspit]

Shooting duelist.

1. I would start with my left gun which is in a crossdraw. Draw with the right hand - shoot,  holster (with the left ) and scoot.
2. Rifle staged with grip off the table, grab with the right hand lift up, grab with the left hand, shoulder lever shoot.
3. Set rifle down with the right hand as I'm grabbing (or fumbling) shells with the left hand.
4. Grab 97 which has been staged with the port down, turn it over as it's coming up and drop a shell in. Grab with left hand and engage the targets loading over the top.
5. Set the 97 down with the left  hand as I'm moving or starting to move. When a step away from shooting position place hand on right pistol, at the shooting position draw and shoot.

In this sequence I would stage my rifle to the left of the shotgun and put it back that way too.

[Stump Water]

You folks that stage your long guns with the grips off the table for easy grabbing (like I do most of the time)... take the opportunity once in a while to stage 'em all the way up on the table.  That way a match (EoT 2005) or club (Thornfield Rangers in NC) that mandates "butt forward" staging won't throw ya.

Butt forward = long gun butts (the butt plate) must be forward of the back edge of the horizontal staging surface.

[Doc Shapiro]

Thanks for the reminder Stump.  That's something else I consider bad stage design 

[Stump Water]

Yer welcome Doc.   But.... cain't hep it, that was the "law" at EoT.

Their sandbox, their rules... and all that.

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Howdy! Camille OK! Lets talk about transitions. Before I describe how I'd shoot this stage, I must tell you what I am shooting with. I shoot 2 Colt style revolvers by USFA with 5 ½in barrels in 32-20 cal. I shoot an original rebuilt Colt Lightning rifle also in 32-20 cal. This is to prevent any mix-up of ammunition. (Same ammo in all guns) For a shotgun, I shoot an original 20in (cut down) 12ga mod 87' win lever gun, modified for quick 2-drop system by Fireball. Holsters are a Long-Hunter Rig by Kirkpatrick (No cross draws) & an Evil Roy double-loop shotgun belt also by Kirkpatrick. Personal info, I predominantly right-handed while I am left eye dominant. (Just means I have to shoot with my left eye closed when aiming.) Ok! With that said let's shoot the stage. At the beep I would draw & shoot my right hand pistol first. Why? Because that's the way I practice, so I can let my subconscious memory take care of that. (Don't have to think about which pistol goes in what holster) Now assuming the center berm is more than a couple feet away I would stage the rifle on its left side (loading gate up) because, my right hand will reach the rifle stock first. Now if there was little or no movement, I would stage the rifle right side down because, now my left hand will reach the forearm or pump first while my other hand is holstering the right side pistol. Now the shotgun on it's right side to the right of the rifle. After finishing shooting the rifle, my left hand is putting the rifle down while my right is going for 2 shotgun shells. My left hand then slides over to grab the shotgun. Tilting the shotgun upright as I'm bring it up to my shoulder as my right hand is loading the shells.(I always load with my right hand so my left hand can keep the shotgun to my shoulder aimed at the targets) Laying the shotgun down I can now move to the finial position with my hand on my left pistol until I get into position to draw & engage the last set of targets. Done! Hope this is understandable. Wild Ben Raymond         

[Soldierboy]

Thanks for the reminder Stump.  That's something else I consider bad stage design 

Hum...
I would actually call that very good stage design....

But I like pesky pistol knockdown target's callibrated  with factory .38's that has to be knocked down before rest of pistol targets can be shot too

Good thread by the way, I will sure try that squatting thing, sounds sound and reasonable. And if my Guns turn up to morrow, i will have something to play with too. 3 months in Texas without my preciousses is kind of hard...

[Wireman]

  I'll start with my right pistol.  I'm right handed and get that gun to bear quickly.  Since I have to move to the next position, there's time to holster.  The last pistol requires movement before shooting, so that will be an easy draw with the left hand and transfer. Draw on the way and transfer pistol to right hand. 

Doc, Not to be a safety Nut or anything, but won't you just be asking' for a 170 violation?
Moving left and using the left gun is asking for trouble, the way we play in NC. That's why Cammie started with her left gun so when she turns to go right the gun will be inside the 170 area.
I don't like this stage anyway cause it's not GF friendly. I think I'll go write some stages stacked for the GF for the next match I can get them into....lol...
I like the premise of these posts.. Keep up the good work Camille Eonich. 

[Doc Shapiro]

Wireman, just have to be careful holstering that left gun.  I usually can get that thing in the holster pretty quick, quick enough that it's a little quicker for me to start with the right gun and then be sidestepping with the left gun while holstering.  Besides, I'd be starting close enough to the shotgun to not have to move more than a sidestep to get to it.

Doc

[Wireman]

I saw guy do what your talking about and get a DQ for "sweepin and 170" he missed the holster a couple a times. It was very tense. The guy is a real good shooter. Hate fer it to happen to u Mr. W3G...lol...

[Doc Shapiro]

As long as the muzzle doesn't break the 170, it's no problem.  Keep it pointed down and it's a no call.  At least according to some TG's and Coyote Calhoun.  We had a chat about it at a Regional after I DQ'd someone for it.  Apparently, it wasn't a DQ as the muzzle was pointed at the ground.

Doc

[Camille Eonich]

Wireman, if you're talking about the DQ that was given at a state match last year that was a bad call also.  We just happened to have the video camera going when the guy shot and got it all on tape.  Several people called us and wanted to see then tape after that.  It was ruled that the SDQ was given in error.

[Wireman]

I was there too bud, But...I'm green and just countin' misses. Misses, Mrses? messes?

[Curl E. Kay]

I'd shoot it almost the way Camille did..  Unless the distance between the shooting positions was relatively close. If they were close, I'd put my right hand on the rifle as I drew my left pistol. Pick up the rifle as I was holstering my left pistol. Return rifle with left hand while picking up shotgun with right hand. The first two SG rounds would be pulled and loaded left handed. The second two SG rounds would be pulled and loaded right handed. Still holding shotgun in left hand would draw and fire right pistol right handed. This is how I'd shoot it given the props were conducive.

Curl E. Kay

[Camille Eonich]

bump for potential visitors

[Johnny Dingus]

I'd shoot it almost the way Camille did..  Unless the distance between the shooting positions was relatively close. If they were close, I'd put my right hand on the rifle as I drew my left pistol. Pick up the rifle as I was holstering my left pistol. Return rifle with left hand while picking up shotgun with right hand. The first two SG rounds would be pulled and loaded left handed. The second two SG rounds would be pulled and loaded right handed. Still holding shotgun in left hand would draw and fire right pistol right handed. This is how I'd shoot it given the props were conducive.

Curl E. Kay

Hi am new to this shooting thing.  Cowboy anyway and was wonderin about holding one gun while shootin the other.  Is that SASS legal.  Now in the old west there wernt these rules...but anway could use a few pointers and shortcuts.   

JD