38 special

[reloader4410]

just traded for a 38 special Richard mason conversion. years ago I loaded several hundred of 158 grain lead with 4 grains red dot 880 fps book & wanted to know if they would be a safe load in the conversion? I have shot this load in a 5 shot smith & Wesson. any thoughts. Thanks in advance.

[pony express]

I don't have any loading manual handy, looking on the interweb, Alliant's data shows 3.4gr and 793fps for a 158gr. Your load may be a bit hot, according to that one source. They are rated for any standard .38 load, but I would avoid anything even resembling +P.

[Coffinmaker]

Safe??  Sure.  Safety no problem.  However, heavy bullets with some schutz paah will tend to batter the Wedge and Arbor.  The more you
batter the wedge and arbor, the shorter the life of the gun (without rebuild).
Original conversions were built for bullets in that weight range, but the propellant used was Black Powder.  Far different pressure curve,
less pressure.
Modern built conversions have much stronger cylinders but still have the Achilles Heal of Arbor/Wedge assembly.  The only thing keeps the gun together is the wedge and the threads of the arbor.
Normally, with the Open Top Design guns, I would recommend fairly light bullets at moderate velocity.  For the 38, I like 125Gr bullets at
6 -700 FPS.  For the .44s and .45s, I like 200Gr or lighter bullets and moderate velocity.  Lots of folks want to shoot their guns with the
original Bullet weight at SAAMI standard load.  Proofed for it??  Yes.  Good idea??  Not so much.

Coffinmaker

[reloader4410]

trail boss min load 2.7 w/158 grain bullet.661fps. lightest bullet mold I have drops at 150 grains, 2.7 TB  W/150 bullet should be ok? thoughts.

[Coffinmaker]

Before you shoot that R/M Conversion much, be sure and check the Barrel to Arbor fit.  It will need to be fixed.  Or ... Hopefully the previous owner fix'd it (doubtful).  Your last listed loading should be fine.

Coffinmaker

[reloader4410]

please school me on this barrel arbor fit, its a new old stock & everything seems to be tight, also the box says army san marco uberti   if that means anything. thanks

[Abilene]

please school me on this barrel arbor fit, its a new old stock & everything seems to be tight, also the box says army san marco uberti   if that means anything. thanks

Yeah, that means that you are in the twilight zone, because Army San Marco and Uberti are two completely different companies!  The ASM conversions had a lot of problems and they are out of business.  Look to see what name is on the gun.  If it is Uberti, here is one of Pettifogger's articles on the arbor fit:
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Uberti_Open_Top_Revolvers_Part_3.pdf

Substitute a 1 or 2 for the 3 for the other two parts.

[reloader4410]

CFA FredericksburgTexasASMItaly. loaded the above load & just went outside & shot 5 rounds, shoots fine, with some leading, think I will have to cast some bullets with softer lead. Thanks for the link. Happy Trails.
Forgot it has a silver backstrap & trigger guard.

[Coffinmaker]

Well, It's an Armi San Marco "something."  ASM went "Tango Uniform" some years back, after exhibiting didley squat for quality control.
Closer look at your gun called for.  I don't believe ASM ever made a Richards - Mason conversion.  If the rear sight is on the top of the
breach ring, with a rebounding firing pin and an 1860 pattern barrel with ejector, you actually have ASM's version of a 1st Model Richards
conversion built on an 1861 frame.  There are NO replacement or repair parts available for it.  In any case, since ASM went "Darwin"
there are no parts available for ANY of the ASM guns.  DON'T BREAK IT!!  ASM was just as bad as Uberti for Barrel to Arbor fit.  If the
barrel, with the cylinder out, slides back over the end of the frame, it needs fix'd.  Twist the barrel assembly off to the side to check this
area.

Coffinmaker

[reloader4410]

Coffenmaker, will get some pics up tomarrow, wife is the pic guru. Also had a couple  miss fires second strike they went off. Thanks.

[Abilene]

Misfires could be due to a light mainspring.  Also, the ASM conversions tended to mushroom the firing pins.  I think there is a "striker" in the middle of the hammer face that hits the firing pin, and there is a screw on the back of the hammer to adjust how far forward that striker sits in the hammer.  Also, if these are reloads it could be primer not seated properly - first strike seats the primer, second strike goes bang.

[reloader4410]

Here's the pictures that my wife took.

[reloader4410]

Additional pictures.

[reloader4410]

Main spring more than likely very light, shooting pard had same problem & put a heavy spring on his open top. Think ill leave it as is, not my main match gun anyway, just fun. Thanks & happy trails.

[Coffinmaker]

OK!!  What you have is an Armi San Marco 1851 Navy, 1st Model Richards reproduction.  Navy Gripframe, Silver Plated.  Normally,
the rebounding firing pin in the Breach Ring has too heavy of a return spring.  This can be fixed with the right size Ball Penn spring,
cut to size.  They also were shipped with too light of a Main Spring.  Best bet for a Main Spring is the "Lee's Gunsmithing Gunfighter"
spring kit from Brownells (some fitting required).  It may also have a bolt alignment block in the frame next to the bolt.  Don't lose it.
The gun may also have a funny looking spacer (bushing) between the cylinder face and the back of the barrel lug.  That spacer will
help establish barrel/cylinder gap and end shake.  Don't lose it either.  Unless you shoot BP in the gun.  That funny bushing will trap
gun gas and spooge and foul the cylinder rotation real quick. 
To run reliably, you will need to correct the barrel to arbor fit.  Unless as I mentioned, the previous owner fix'd it (doubtful).
Have fun with it.  It is not very well made.  Don't shoot heavy bullets through it.

Coffinmaker

[reloader4410]

125 gr mold on order.Thanks to all for the info.