.45 Colt 1/2 charge

[Coffinmaker]

Ye Be Kerect!!  The "race for the bottom" has for the most part gone away.  A few years back, the most common question over on that
other Heathen Forum was "how slow can you go with ____________ ??  Insert your powder of choice.  The other race was most commonly "what is the lightest bullet for ___________ ??  Insert your chosen caliber.  Got to the point some folks were shooting ammo
that sounded like toy cap guns.  Was and still can be scary running a timer 'cause it's hard to identify a squib.

Going to the bottom is a fools pursuit.  As previously noted, you gotta have some form of feedback from the gun.  It's nice to be able to tell if it actually went off.  Surprisingly, I have that problem when I switch off from my 44 Cap Guns to a 36.  Initially I sometimes wonder if
it really went off.  I'm admittedly a recoil wimp, but a certain amount of recoil is necessary for gun function.  I have built some really light
loadings with round ball in cartridges, both in 45 and 44.  They are fun for a practice round to economize on powder, but the difference in cost from a 148Gr Ball to a 160Gr bullet is ............. who cares??

However.

As a Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter who strictly shoots Cap Guns, Suppository shooters are just too damn HO HUM.

Coffinmaker

[Dick Dastardly]

All that Coffinmaker, and how many publications have photos that show black powder shooters compared to heathen fad smokeyless piff-ting pinko shooters?   

DD-MDA

[Coffinmaker]

Not a fair question at all DDD.  Not Fair.

Pifft .... tink

Pfft .... tink

Pfft ..... tink

Pfft .....

Pfft ...... tink

[Noz]

Not a fair question at all DDD.  Not Fair.

Pifft .... tink

Pfft .... tink

Pfft ..... tink

Pfft .....

Pfft ...... BOMB

[Blair]

I don't know how this thread will play out in the long run.
It kind of sounds like it may end up being, how shall I say it, "a bit testy"?
I would prefer to stay out of this kind of discussion. And will be happy to delete my postings.
My best,
Blair

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Blair .........

No worries.  We've all just been having some fun along the way.  I don't think any of us have taken anything serious, except it is a really neat idea for practice ammunition.  Or plinking bunnies and such.

Coffinmaker

[Dick Dastardly]

As long as the ammo makes the SASS legal amount of smoke, I'd say go ahead and shoot it and enjoy it.  We're in this for fun and there's no Cadillac waiting for the winner out in the parking lot.

DD-MDA

[wildman1]

It's all CM's fault he did it I watched him.  wM1

[Coffinmaker]

Twaz snot!!  Twaz Noz made it splode. 

Pifft ....... tink

Coffinmaker

[w44wcf]

More like....
boom! Clang!

whereas 40 grs..=
Boom! Clang!

w44wcf

[Hargrave]

Coming here always makes me smile !!

I was going to post this in my original discussion, but hey .. this looks lively...

I originally started out looking for that "race to the bottom" thing (as I was new to loading and after a lifetime of wanting to .. finally had a chance to slow down long enough to both load and shoot in a match last month. To say I am all in now is about accurate.

Any-hoo-ha, about a year ago, I purchased the "light recoil" loads from buffalo arms and thought, hey .. they seemed alright, I should try and do that ... well .. I got that out of my system and after a few hundred rounds of experimenting .. think I have my new loading.

After some tinkering.. I decided that the best way to load .45 colt for repeated shooting was this ....

(1) Size the top 2/3 of the case and leave the bottom 1/3 unsized after firing. This slight neck in the case helps form a better seal in a riffle and limits the blow back. (A light load definitely produces blow back, so keep the powder volume at about 28 to 30 grains of 2F Swiss.

(2) 30 Grains of Swiss 2F powder. Insert a .06" wad and hand compress, add a 1/8 wad on top of that and then seat a 200 Grain bullet. This produces a bullet that is perfect OAL and just enough compression to work well in 1873 Winchester, SAA and most importantly, all the Kirst Konverters.

Now, I shot my first match with this and the smoke was glorious ! A few of the smokeless old timers commented that I could "back off the powder charge a little" and that what I was using might be more than was needed ... but then the only other person shooting black in the match that day said "NO .. that is the way it is supposed to be" and that was that ..

I think I have my new "standard .45 colt conversion load". Now .. my goal this year is to see how many I can load up for "inventory". I have about 900 brass after counting so .. lets start there .

Jacob

[w44wcf]

Hargrave,
Thanks for the info. For the 1/2 charge I partially resize the case just past where the base of the bullet rests.  I do the same for a full charge case ...... just past where the base of the bullet will be. As you indicated, that provides for a better seal in the chamber.

I fired more of the 1/2 charge rounds recently and they performed very well.   
FUN! FUN! FUN! 

I did test some with  20 grs. by weight of Olde E 3F - 831 f.p.s. with the 200 gr bullet.

Speaking of 1/2 charges....



w44wcf

[Dick Dastardly]

In order to reduce the felt recoil in 45 Colt bp loads with the SAME boolet.  There are Six ways to do it.

1.  Reduce the size of the bottle so that the load is compressed by the boolit with less powder (Cowboy 45 Special brass).  45 Schofield brass seems to not reduce recoil all that much.

2.  Seat the boolit snug on the powder of a full size 45 Colt brass.  (not legal unless some boolit pokes it nose above the brass)

3.  Drop in the powder and follow with enough filler that will allow the nose of the boolit to stick above the mouth of the brass when seating the boolit to compress the load.

4.  Use less energetic powder.  FFg is less energetic than FFFg in 45 Colt loads.  This may not get you the recoil reduction you seek but it's worth considering.  Accuracy should still be fine.

5.  Shoot a heavier gun.  The extra weight of the gun will help mitigate the felt recoil.  I do this by shooting my Cowboy 45 Special loads from my ROAs.  There is quite a reduced felt recoil with these big guns over my usual 1860  Colt open tops.  Be aware, the heavier guns may slow you down some.

6.  Longer barrel pistols seem to have less muzzle rise and felt recoil.

Well, there you have it.

DD-MDA

[john boy]

Hmmm...A 200 gr bullet traveling at almost 800 f.p.s. is definitely beyond a mouse fart load..............

A WartHog caliber in a gamer load ... 

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho JB,

I've never been called out on my 45CowboySpecial loads.  The smoke, flame and knock down the KDs.  Simply put, my ROAs with full house 45 Colt loads couldn't have accomplished more.

However, this thread was about REDUCED 45 Colt loads.  That was what I was responding to.

DD-MDA

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks w44wcf !

I am intriqued that 20gr of BP with a 200gr bullet produces ~ 800 fps! That would seem to
repolicate one of the Webley Manstopper loads.

There is a lot to be said for a variety of loads, both for versatility, cheap quiet practice, and other training. Our firelocks have more uses than only CAS shooting!

I personally would not consider this a game load, and I am actually interested in MORE reduced loads not
so much as gamer loads but as loads "tailored for the job", such as rabbit loads, pest control, rat loads,
further reduced gallery loads for "low noise shooting" and similar tasks that used to be the venue of .22's

We here in the great southwest STILL have a constant draught of .22LR , so reduced loads of ANY powder in .38,
.44. and .45 are filling the gap.

yhs
prof mumbles

[Bunk Stagnerg]

My Dear John Boy
I do not want to start a urinating contest with you but, if my research is correct, the Cowboy Action (.45 short) loaded with a 200 grain bullet and 1.3 c/c (about 20 grains weight) of FFFg powder replicates the loading of the .44 Henry Rim fire or center fire round.

I don't think the Yankee soldiers considered it a "gamer" load. I doubt the Confederate soldiers on the incoming end of that bullet ever accused the Dam Yankees of using a "gamer" load. For sure in the opening of the west Frontiers man did not consider t a "gamer" load.

This is not a "gamer" load at all, in fact it is a hand full with plenty of knockdown and recoil.

I will admit that to ease the wear on my elderly wrists I do use a 160 grain bullet but with the same 1.3 c/c of FFFg Gun Powder which is almost a case full. A little less recoil but still a potent load.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

[Coffinmaker]

Well ...... Harrumpff!!

I must contest some preconceived notions (Notions = buttons, hooks, fasteners, girdles  ).  When putting together either "reduced" or
"gallery" or "pest control" loads, it must be remembered, with Gonne Powder, there is no such thing as "quiet."  Whilst perhaps, not
quite so startling as an 45 Colt case stuffed full of 3f, lighting off a 1/2 case of Gonne Powder will in fact bring the neighbors out of
their reverie (don't ask how I know this fact).
There is also the distinct possibility, the Stock Boys of the Local Bastille will also drop by for a "chat."  (another "Don't ask" fact).  I do
however, profess, shooting loads tailored for the job.  We don't have to "kill" the Wiley Steels, just make em wiggle and make KLANG.

I see it as something like shooting ....... Squirrels with a 600 Nitro Express.  It works ........ but ....... there ain't much left for the pot.
Plus, your not real keen on lots and lots of follow up shots 

Coffinmaker   

[Bunk Stagnerg]

The "gallery" loads that were loaded in desperation with 1 c/c FFFg and a .452  ball in a .45 (.45 short) CAS case worked pretty well. They hit the steel with a healthy clink and made plenty of smoke. Recoil was very light but did give some feedback that the gun was working

The load was padded with wads to give compression and the crimp was just above the middle of the ball. I have some others that have not been tried with 28 grains FFFg, a lubed wad and a ball loaded into a regular .45 Colt case with the ball pushed down to the powder like the cylinder in a percussion revolver.

As soon as we get cooler weather those are on the menu for testing as practice ammo. Somewhere between dry fire and live fire I guess they would be damp fire ammo.

Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

[Grapeshot]

Don't worry about it Blair.  There are always someone who needs attention.