GOEX not a black powder??

[Good Troy]

I was sighting in my trapdoor carbine last week, and checking out some different loads at a non-SASS range where I'm a member.  I usually get a bit of attention, as I pretty much shoot only black powder in my replicas.  One fellow range member began quizing me about what I was shooting.... 
He asks "Is that a 45/70?" 
Yep, but I'm shooting only 55 grains as this is a carbine, and I'm trying out some at 46 grains so I can practice without shoulder separation, I told him.
Well, he says, I shoot a high wall with a 500 grain bullet and 1-1/2 F Swiss powder.  You might have better groups if you shoot a real black powder.
I said, it is a "real" black powder...it is Goex 2F.
He said no it's not a real black powder.
I said okay...and thought it better not to have an argueement or lenghty discussion with him as it would take away from my range time.
So....I guess I've been fooling myself that I'm shooting a real BP.

[john boy]

Troy, I strongly believe he was alluding to the quality difference Goex and Swiss ... Swiss being a better grade of powder.  Which it is.

[Cliff Fendley]

I think what john boy said. If the Goex is satisfactory to you then don't worry about it.

[Good Troy]

You're probably right...I just interpreted it as a bit snobbish.
I've heard/read that about Swiss being the best, or at least one of the best.  
For the bang and clang I'm looking for, the Goex has done fine.
I've purchased a couple of pounds of Ole E to try in my 45-70.  Maybe I'll try out a lb of Swiss 1-1/2 next order.
But, it will be a while.  I just got a 5 lb shipment in last week of 2F, and had about 1-1/2 on hand.

[Coffinmaker]

Hi guys.  Isn't it amazing how some folks consider themselves superior to lesser beings??  Because one is shooting "Swiss" as opposed to
Goex automatically renders one's position in the pecking order up there with the Vanderbuilts.  
It should be remembered however, when one has one's nose elevated that far, there is the very real danger of DROWNING when it rains.

It should also be noted, shooting a Highwall with great big Artillery Bullets is also, according to some, a measure on one's manliness.  Oh,
I forgot, holding yer nose that high also prevents the rifle from breaking it under recoil  

Upon your next meeting, suggest his superiorness demonstrate his ability at  a rolling pastry  

Coffinmaker

PS:  I'm probably gonna get yelled at fer this one    Nah, fix'd it
PSS:  Wonder what his wonderfulness would say about me and APP in my lowly H&R Handi 38-55

[Good Troy]

I'm certainly glad that I wasn't shooting Triple 7 or Pryodex!

[Coffinmaker]

He'd probably try to excommunicate ya 

Coffinmaker

[Good Troy]

I do think the other gentlemen, John Boy and Cliff had it right.  I think he was just expressing that the quality of Swiss is better than Goex.  I was afraid that I would get into it unnecessarily with him, so I let it drop.  Apparently, he is a long range shooter...I'm not.  I'm lucky to get a hit on our 100 yd targets standing, and un-supported.  I have crude, non-windage adjustable sights, and I image he has a vernier peep and a globe front. 

Goex has served my purposes for CAS, and hasn't put too much of a dent in my wallet.  As I mentioned, I have purchased some Ole E to try.  One of our SASS club members has reported to me that it burns cleaner....so, I thought I'd give it a try, as the price difference isn't that much. 

[Dick Dastardly]

Old Einsford is a Goex product.  Having heard good things about it including winning some prestigious matches, I decided to buy 5 Lb. of it and have been loading some 45-70 ammo with it.  For long distance, I usually shot Swiss 1.5 Fg and have a good supply on hand also.  As soon as Wisconsin thaws out I'll be shooting some test patterns with both.

As far as which black powder is "best", define your mission and buy what you can afford.  The fun is in the shooting, not the snobbery.

Make smoke!

DD-MDA

[Coffinmaker]

DDD

PRECISELY

The idea, is to HAVE FUN!!

Coffinmaker

[Good Troy]

Thanks good folks...I'll keep shooting and smiling.

[Cliff Fendley]

Good Troy, I think you will find Old Eynsford to your liking. It does burn much cleaner than regular Goex, of course Goex is the dirtiest of all black powders I've shot.

Many say the Old E actually rivals Swiss. I have been shooting quite a bit of Old E over the last couple years and have recently been shooting some of both Swiss and Old E. I might still give the edge to Swiss but you definitely pay for it. I think Old E is the best bang for the buck.

The important thing is having fun and making smoke.

[Bibbyman]

I got a couple of pounds of Grafs Reenactor powder to load 10 guage shotshells.   I've even used it in 51 Navy 44s.  Works fine.  I wonder what he'd think of that?

[ira scott]

Hey Good Troy!  We haven't met, but I think we're going to at the GAF Muster this year. You and I were both shopping for an Uberti carbine at the same time, and I'll be damned if you didn't steal that one you got right out from under my nose! Yes, I know "you snooze you lose"! I found one later, but didn't quite get the sweet deal you got on yours. I've just started load development for mine. Are you loading 405s for yours?  Last year I shot the Muster with a .45-60  1876 with 300 grain bullets, and I never had to shoot any of the steel bad guys more than once. (if they don't fall, you have to hit them 3 times before they are "DEAD")

I love the line about drowning when it rains!

[john boy]

In defense for the quality of Goex, Cartridge is and was the best 'blend' before Olde E.  It is 97% 20 mesh.  I emptied my local reloading supplier's trailer of every last can of it.  For me, 68gr in a 45-70 works just fine
Olde E is a juiced up granulation mix, does  produce soft foul and the reasons why it is liked.  
But don't throw out Swiss with the dish water cause it is and will be one of the best powders ever made because of their quality materials used and processing steps.

A powder that folks don't talk about much or use is KIK.  There are 2 powders on the market with charcoal made from the best wood available - alder buckthorn ... Swiss and KIK.  Currently, KIK is my go to powder.  Here's an example why:
In 2011 - Fifty 38-55 KIK reloads using the Ideal 375166 bullets, shot the rounds consecutively with no tubing or patching.  I started at the 500m Rams and worked back to the 200m Chickens.  With minor setting adjustments from my prior records ... accuracy was very good
Put the rifle on the bench for cleaning: one water cotton ball and 3 dry ones.  Here the results of the foul in the bore that made me a believer in KIK

[Noz]

Powderinc sells KIK. I bought some as an economy measure and have stayed with it for performance reasons.  Shoots well in every thing I have tried except C45S.

[Good Troy]

Hey Good Troy!  We haven't met, but I think we're going to at the GAF Muster this year. You and I were both shopping for an Uberti carbine at the same time, and I'll be damned if you didn't steal that one you got right out from under my nose! Yes, I know "you snooze you lose"! I found one later, but didn't quite get the sweet deal you got on yours. I've just started load development for mine. Are you loading 405s for yours?  Last year I shot the Muster with a .45-60  1876 with 300 grain bullets, and I never had to shoot any of the steel bad guys more than once. (if they don't fall, you have to hit them 3 times before they are "DEAD")

I love the line about drowning when it rains!

Ira,

I look forward to meeting you at the Muster!

Yes, I was very fortunate to get the TD, and it is good to hear you aquired one, too.

I'm using a 405 g FP and FB bullet made by Missouri Bullet.  My TD performs to my liking with these and 53 to 55 grains of either 2F or 3F Goex.  I either use a 0.06" (I think) pre-cut fiber wad, or 0.3 cc of Cream of Wheat to get some compression with this short bullet (it is short when compaired to the hollow based bullets originally used). The H&R carbine that I had previously did fine with either, but that gun has a new home now, and incidentally, the new owner is shooting ~300 g bullets from it.  I've been on a quest to find a reduced recoil load for practicing.  I tried the 300 g bullet from Missouri Bullet, but the Pedersoli TD didn't group well with it.  I've now found that the 405 g bullet with ~46 g (by weight) of 2F Goex pre-compressed followed with 1 cc of Cream of Wheat filler performs well for me, and is about 4" low at 100 yrds.  I either aim higher or use the 200 yd rear sight setting.

[Good Troy]

John Boy and Noz,

Thanks for the tip on KIK.  Good to know!

[Cliff Fendley]

Good info JB, I did not know that about the wood on KIK and Swiss.

KIK is the powder I have shot most in CAS and re enactment. Great powder for the price.

[Fox Creek Kid]

The old GOEX Express was my favorite GOEX BP. Long discontinued, I have one can of Fg & a half can of FFg left.