Converting 45 S&W Open Top to 44 Henry Centerfire

RRC Jacket · January 14, 2016, 08:19:01 PM

I've been lurking this forum for a while but wanted to wait until I had something interesting to say or ask. I think this qualifies.

Some background: I have a pair of Cimarron Open Tops chambered in 45 Schofield, but I've had the itch for a while to try to be more traditional in what I decide to shoot. I've seen the past posts on here about using a 44 Russian cartridge case with a 44 heel type bullet as a defacto centerfire version of the 44 Henry Rimfire. The cases are very similar in length with the Russian being a tad longer and of course, since it's a centerfire, having slightly less space for powder (although I'm pretty sure I could fit 26 grains of bp in with compression).

Question: Since the barrel is already the right bore size at .452 or .451 being a 45 Schofield, would it be possible to buy an 44 Colt/Russian Open Top cylinder from Cimarron and ream the front chambers to the correct size (open them up from .429 to .451 or .452 in order for the diameter to be the same from front to back), put it in the Open Top instead of the 45 Schofield cylinder, and it actually worK?

Any help or advice would be awesome. This would save me from either buying two new pistols and just having to use non-heel type bullets which are less authentic. I saw where someone did this with their Henry rifle and I would like to do that hopefully in the near future.

Mike · January 14, 2016, 10:17:31 PM

Cylinders should be available and it should be easy enough to take the forcing cone out of the cylinder if there is one, i will have to look at my Richards. I have a Remington 58 which i converted from 38 to 44 Heeled by changing the barrel and opening the cylinder to take the 44 colt case and heeled bullet.
Good luck and have fun.

Coffinmaker · January 14, 2016, 10:24:10 PM

Well ..... Lurking on this forum is not necessarily a bad thing. It can be hard on your Budget though

Yes you certainly can do what you want to do. Using a Cylinder chambered in 44 Special or 44 Colt. Have the cylinder throats reamed out to the same dimension as the cartridge diameter. I don't have my 44 Open Tops any more so I don't have access to the exact chamber dimensions. Doable though.

Cheaper, quicker, kinda sorta the samea, Simply switch from 45 S&W cases to Cowboy 45 Special cases. The result will be about the same in cartridge performance and a bunch cheaper.

Coffinmaker

PS: Gonna be fun to watch though, if you actually forget and try to run regular .44s through the gun.

Hoof Hearted · January 15, 2016, 08:41:19 AM

RRC

I have a reamer that I had made expressly for that service! I have reamed a number of cylinders for pards on here......
I also can take a 38/357 cylinder up to this caliber (two steps).
Let me know if I can help.

Regards, HH

Pettifogger · January 15, 2016, 05:18:47 PM

Whatever you do don't sell or lose your .45 cylinder. If you ever decide to sell the gun there are probably only one or two other people in the world that would want such a conversion and you might have a tough time locating them.

The .45 will be much easier to sell.

Mike · January 15, 2016, 05:31:57 PM

Gyou will need to set up for loading this round, i found it easy to load once i got the gear.
For ease buy a 44 colt cylinder and barrel and have fun with both calibres.

Hoof Hearted · January 15, 2016, 05:45:41 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on January 15, 2016, 05:18:47 PM
Whatever you do don't sell or lose your .45 cylinder. If you ever decide to sell the gun there are probably only one or two other people in the world that would want such a conversion and you might have a tough time locating them. The .45 will be much easier to sell.

He obviously knew where to ask.........and the sale would probably be here also (guess I'm one of those two...?).
I have done 6 Petifogger in the last couple years

But REALLY? Who the hell sells their guns?

RRC Jacket · January 15, 2016, 09:57:33 PM

Thanks for all the responses! I thought it sounded kosher. Glad I got some verification.

Hoof Hearted, I'll probably hit you up in the near future to see about getting it done. The same could probably be done to a Cimarron Richards Type II or a Army Richards Mason, right?

Fox Creek Kid · January 15, 2016, 10:19:41 PM

Before doing work on a .45 Open Top peruse this thread:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,27491.0.html

RRC Jacket · January 15, 2016, 11:27:08 PM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on January 15, 2016, 10:19:41 PM
Before doing work on a .45 Open Top peruse this thread:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,27491.0.html

Thanks. I hadn't really seen that before. I got mine at least ten years ago, so I'll give 'em a look to see how thin they are at the barrel. If I had to though, it wouldn't probably be too much trouble to send them back to Cimarron and get some improved replacements if needed.

Hoof Hearted · January 16, 2016, 10:03:49 AM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on January 15, 2016, 10:19:41 PM
Before doing work on a .45 Open Top peruse this thread:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,27491.0.html

RRC

Reaming and installing a sub caliber chambered cylinder in a Uberti Richards "conversion" of an 1860 Colt chambered in 45 Colt will not have any bearing on the barrel.
It appears Uberti has addressed the issue from MANY years ago in the 71/72 "open top" with the 45 caliber barrel.

HH

Hoof Hearted · January 16, 2016, 10:08:02 AM

Quote from: RRC Jacket on January 15, 2016, 09:57:33 PM
Thanks for all the responses! I thought it sounded kosher. Glad I got some verification.

Hoof Hearted, I'll probably hit you up in the near future to see about getting it done. The same could probably be done to a Cimarron Richards Type II or a Army Richards Mason, right?

Yes....
Basically any cylinder that has enough room on the cartridge circle. We just have to make sure that the ratchet tooth does not get too small for the hand to properly index the cylinder and that is not an issue if the firearm was ever chambered in a cartridge of comparable size.

By the way......neither of these two Uberti's is an "open top" as was mentioned in the linked thread.

Regards, HH

RRC Jacket · January 16, 2016, 11:35:02 AM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 16, 2016, 10:08:02 AM

By the way......neither of these two Uberti's is an "open top" as was mentioned in the linked thread.

Oh, I know. I just thought it wouldn't be hard to get either of those two done nearly the same way but for a heel base 44 Colt cartridge.

Coffinmaker · January 16, 2016, 12:21:22 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how to do 6 Pettifogger. Or is it really 6 Pettifoggers. Or a Pettifogger 6 times. What's a Pettifogger??

Coffinmaker

Lefty Dude · January 16, 2016, 01:58:55 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on January 16, 2016, 12:21:22 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how to do 6 Pettifogger. Or is it really 6 Pettifoggers. Or a Pettifogger 6 times. What's a Pettifogger??

Coffinmaker

You Devil, You ! Just a Pot stirrer you are !

Coffinmaker · January 16, 2016, 06:04:00 PM

WHO?? ME?? Nah, I just RESEMBLE THAT

Coffinmaker

Hoof Hearted · January 16, 2016, 10:37:15 PM

Forgot the comma police are here

( Should there be a comma in that sentence also?)

OK so who's gonna chime in and edumacate him on the perils of handling lead and how firearms are dangerous?

Pettifogger · January 16, 2016, 10:51:21 PM

Do I hear seven?

Professor Marvel · January 17, 2016, 01:29:07 AM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 16, 2016, 10:37:15 PM
Forgot the comma police are here ( Should there be a comma in that sentence also?)

OK so who's gonna chime in and edumacate him on the perils of handling lead and how firearms are dangerous?

Got it c0vered, Hoof:

Careless Handling of lead will kill you, and eating firearms is dangerous.
or is it t'other way 'round ?

yhs
prof marbles

RRC Jacket · January 18, 2016, 10:24:23 PM

I thought of one more situation that I think is relatable to the original question.

Would it also be possible to replace the Open Top barrel with a 1860 Army C&B barrel to create a near perfect resemblance to a 1860 Long Cylinder Conversion? I'm assuming that it would require some work to get it to fit correctly with the Open Top arbor and frame but it would be the correct bore size and with a reamed out Open Top cylinder, would like pretty dang good.

Thoughts? Would be a lot cheaper and way less time consuming way to get a Long Cylinder Conversion reproduction.