Info - .45 colt - Light Recoil - Black Powder

Hargrave · January 10, 2016, 11:47:38 PM

Howdy from Houston .....

Goal: To create a "standard load" of .45 Colt that is light recoil and fun to shoot

Use: Cowboy Action Competition (and) Introduce friends/family/business partners to the fun of cowboy action and joy of black powder cartridge.

Guns: Kirst converted colt's, SAA, 1873 Winchester and (whatever I decide to add to this in the future)

Materials to be used ....

200 Grain RNFP lead bullets (lubed)

2FF Swiss powder (I want to use the same powder for .45 colt and 45/70

plenty of wads of various thicknesses

brass and large pistol primer of course

Now ... while I wait to find the time to clean the garage and get all my loading stuff out of storage (just moved to Texas last year) ... I wanted to get some opinions, proclamations, recommendations and Proselytizations ..... let the games begin ....

Thanks,
Jake

Fox Creek Kid · January 11, 2016, 12:21:25 AM

If you want to shoot lighter BP loads just buy .45 Schofield brass and don't fiddle fart around with 'wad stacking' nonsense.

Hargrave · January 11, 2016, 12:36:37 AM

I have over 1,000 .45 colt brass

I was thinking that 27 to 30 grains

Blackpowder Burn · January 11, 2016, 07:54:38 AM

32 grains will give you a slightly compressed load with a 200 grain bullet. I like to keep it simple.

Dick Dastardly · January 11, 2016, 08:35:20 AM

If you are serious about reducing recoil in your 45 Colt guns, get and load some Cowboy 45 Special brass with 1.3cc of Genuine Powder in FFg granulation. That will give you a nice compressed load with a J/P 45 200 grain Big Lube®LLC bullet. This is the same load that I shoot with my 1860 Open Tops with Kirst Konverter cylinders.

Keep on smokin'.

DD-MDA

Cliff Fendley · January 11, 2016, 09:00:46 AM

Quote from: Hargrave on January 11, 2016, 12:36:37 AM
I have over 1,000 .45 colt brass

I was thinking that 27 to 30 grains

I put 28 grains in schofield brass with a 200 grain bullet and it's not too bad on recoil. I guess you would just have to see how much filler is needed to use the 45 colt brass.

Bunk Stagnerg · January 11, 2016, 09:08:49 AM

DD
the problem with that is .45 cowboy Special brass is, I believe, no longer available.

He does have lots of .45 Colt brass and i would think that 20 some odd grains and enough filler to compress the Gun Powder under an 180 grain(big Lube) properly lubed bullet would be a fairly light load.
A lot of trouble to make but workable.

And Hargrave welcome to Texas. if you are in central Texas (here comes a shameless plug) look up the Darby Rough Regulators a CAS club 45 minutes fro Austin
Bunk

Dick Dastardly · January 11, 2016, 09:27:53 AM

http://acammo.com/

Take a look here for the C45Spl stuff.

DD-MDA

Good Troy · January 11, 2016, 10:00:08 AM

Quote from: Hargrave on January 10, 2016, 11:47:38 PM
Howdy from Houston .....

Goal: To create a "standard load" of .45 Colt that is light recoil and fun to shoot

Use: Cowboy Action Competition (and) Introduce friends/family/business partners to the fun of cowboy action and joy of black powder cartridge.

Guns: Kirst converted colt's, SAA, 1873 Winchester and (whatever I decide to add to this in the future)

Materials to be used ....

200 Grain RNFP lead bullets (lubed)

2FF Swiss powder (I want to use the same powder for .45 colt and 45/70

plenty of wads of various thicknesses

brass and large pistol primer of course

Now ... while I wait to find the time to clean the garage and get all my loading stuff out of storage (just moved to Texas last year) ... I wanted to get some opinions, proclamations, recommendations and Proselytizations ..... let the games begin ....

Thanks,
Jake

Jake,

Welcome to Houston! I live near NASA, and shoot at Thunder River Renegades in Plantersville, and Willow Hole Cowboys in North Zulch. We'd be glad to have you come out and shoot with us. WHC has a shoot this Saturday.

As for your OP, I have a relatively mild loading that I use in my SAA copies...it is 45 S&W (Schofield) with 25 g of 3F, a WonderWad, and a 0.451" round ball seated just above the equator. I imagine that one could use 2F, but I just duplicated the load I shoot in my C&B revolvers. One could probably use the same concept with a 45 Colt case, utilizing a bullet with the WonderWad, though I've not tried it. I caution that I've heard reports about the lube from the WonderWad fouling the powder, causing misfires/duds. I've not experience this...yet...but, I try to keep only a couple of months of inventory reloaded.

Hargrave · January 11, 2016, 05:16:42 PM

Good Troy ... thank you for the invite .. I can't make it this weekend but I will definitely have to find the time next month to make it out for the shoot. I should have all my loads and plenty of ammo by then!

Bunk Stagnerg ... I travel to Austin quite a bit for work .. You will have to let me know when your club shoots and I will schedule a Friday "meeting" so I can stay over for a Saturday fun of powder and lead!

now ... thanks for the info/opinion on the wonder wad .. I did a quick search of my box of loading materials I got out of storage ... looks like I have enough wads to start a warehouse of the stuff .... (Photo Attached) ... I am confident I will find the necessary materials to take up any space ....

Blackpowder Burn .. thanks for the mix ... I think I will start with something like 28 to 30 grains and see what is needed (if any) to get the fit. I like that overshot wad, it is firm and

Overshot wads
1/16" Vegtable Fiber wads
1/8" Nitro cards
some kind of 1/2" wad (Not sure why I ever got those!)

Looks like my bullet seating depth is going to be .23" ... I assume I should be looking for about 1/8" compression?

Jake

Blackpowder Burn · January 11, 2016, 05:33:46 PM

Hargrave,

Please come see us at Thunder River if you're in the Houston area. Look at the website (www.thunderriverrenegades.com) for information. Call the club number listed - it'll ring through to me - if you have any questions I can help you with.

Hargrave · January 11, 2016, 08:18:21 PM

I will give you a ring and pay a visit ....

Coffinmaker · January 12, 2016, 01:42:28 PM

I was going to skip this one, but just can't help myself. You asked for reducing the recoil in your 45 Colt BP loads. Everybody has been giving you absolutely GREAT and spot on suggestions. The most effective suggestion has been to switch to the C45S cases where you can run a full case under your chosen bullet with no fillers, no wads, no compression problems. Perfect solution.

A caveat. The 45 Colt in a rifle is going to generate a gobs (technical term for gobs) of blow-by. There is NO cure for this. It can be mitigated, but not cured. As you state, you have 1000+ 45 Colt cases. Recoil is simple physics. Equal and opposite and all that text book stuff. The biggies are powder charge (velocity) and Payload (bullet + powder + anything else in the case) Wads become part and parcel of the payload. Hence, wads increase recoil. Best bet is a filler of some sort. I personally don't like fillers. Of the popular fillers, my
suggestion is cream-0-wheat. It burns. When it burns, it doesn't effect chamber pressure and leaves cartridge cases really clean. My suggestion is 20Gr 2f (what you want to shoot) topped by cream-0-wheat (enough cereal to compress a little) and your bullet. Recoil will
be greatly reduced and very manageable in your pistols. Blow-by in your handguns won't matter much and it won't be serious.
REGARDLESS of what you do, there will be blow-by in your rifle. The cream-o-wheat will make it smell better.

Now. Annealing your case mouth will help mitigate rifle blow-by. Switching to C45S cases will help mitigate blow-by. Switching to Schofield cases will help reduce recoil, will NOT effect blow-by. Switching to 44-40 cases (Starline) will really mitigate blow-by if not
eliminate it.

Stuff to think about

Coffinmaker

Hargrave · January 12, 2016, 08:09:18 PM

Can you clarify blow-by ?

I am sure it is simple

Thanks

Bunk Stagnerg · January 12, 2016, 09:35:39 PM

Hello Hargrave
See my post about the Ranges in Texas below for information on Darby Rough Regulators.
Users of real Gun Powder are welcome which will give me someone else to help smoke things up.
Those who use "smokes somewhat less" powder are also welcome and usually are in the majority.
Cody/ Dixon shooters can show off their skills at the longer range targets.
We aim to make every body happy.
Bunk

Coffinmaker · January 12, 2016, 10:36:38 PM

Hargrave

Blow-by is when the chamber does NOT seal all the gun gas in the chamber and barrel. Following ignition, as the bullet moves forward,
the loose chamber allows gun gas to escape and Blow-By the cartridge case and out the rear of the chamber. Normally, directly into
the shooter's face. It is ....... not fun.

45 Colt cases DO NOT expand to seal the chamber. Uberti built rifles have notoriously generous chambers that allow an excessive amount of "blow-by."

Hargrave · January 13, 2016, 07:50:12 AM

Coffinmaker,

Thank you .... That is what I thought but I wanted to verify ...

I will have to see what I get but also make sure to have good eye protection :-)

john boy · January 13, 2016, 08:21:48 AM

Quote45 Colt cases DO NOT expand to seal the chamber. Uberti built rifles have notoriously generous chambers that allow an excessive amount of "blow-by."

Blow back can be usually eliminated shooting smokeless and materially reduced if .... the 45LC reloads have a 454 diameter bullet and the cases are hard crimped using the Lee Factory Crimp Die.
I shoot primarily black powder and truthfully ... I even have spent brass with no blow back. Have I ever had the smoke 'blow back' come back in my face - Never!

Kid, sorry I never replied to you what my tobacco is because for some reason, there is no Reply button for me on that thread. I smoke Captain Black White and have for years

Jake C · January 13, 2016, 12:32:33 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on January 12, 2016, 01:42:28 PM
...Now. Annealing your case mouth will help mitigate rifle blow-by. Switching to C45S cases will help mitigate blow-by. Switching to Schofield cases will help reduce recoil, will NOT effect blow-by. Switching to 44-40 cases (Starline) will really mitigate blow-by if not
eliminate it...

Coffinmaker,

Is there any particular trick to loading .44-40 cases for a .45 rifle? Or is it literally just running .44-40 brass through a .45 sizing die? I did a Google search and didn't have much luck finding anything about it.

Thank you kindly.

Coffinmaker · January 13, 2016, 01:27:07 PM

Jake C,
Basically it's just that simple. Running 44-40 cases thru a 45 Colt resizing die and using a 45 Colt case mouth belling die. the reason it works is the materially thinner brass at the case mouth of 44-40 brass. In the past, it has given the best results when starting with new
Starline brass.

John Boy,
Horsefeathers. You have had demonstrated good luck in your rifle. Uberti chamber dimensions are at best "all over the place" and some
other manufacturers are also less than optimal. Simply switching to a 454 bullet and a Hard Crimp does nothing to solve the Blow-By problem in at least 75% of 45 Colt CAS rifles.

Coffinmaker